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Monday, October 31, 2005

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» Bush to Alito: "Samachu, I Choose You!" from Alamo Nation
Our President has chosen Federal judge Samuel Alito as his next Supreme Court nominee. Alito is often called "Scalito" because of his judicial similarity to Justice Scalia. One unnamed Republican strategist is saying that calling Alito "Scalito" is a... [Read More]

Comments

Alexandra

"I strongly think that if all the energy that is given to the legal fights around abortion were channeled into addressing the root causes, and developing and enhancing alternatives, then in the long run, we all would be better off."

Yes! However neither Federal nor State government can efficiently carry out such a mandate. This is for local communities. But they need to be properly encouraged and given a green light from both State and Federal government. And by green light I mean ideological 'green light' if nothing else.

Jim R

Frankly, I think the abortion topic is a smoke screen by both sides. If the abortion issue weren't there, both sides would have less to argue about. In fact, I do believe there is middle ground, and a lot more then anyone is willing to admit to. I am personally pro choice, for reasons of my own. I also believe abortion is bad, again for reasons of my own.

I strongly think that if all the energy that is given to the legal fights around abortion were channeled into addressing the root causes, and developing and enhancing alternatives, then in the long run, we all would be better off.

I have found that many of the abortion foes (not all) also are against birth control, sex ed, and other things that would reduce the need for abortions. I also think that the pro choice side, needs to step up and provide better alternatives. Adoption being just one. It is to damn difficult and expensive to adopt in this country. Birth mothers need to be provided high quality counseling not just on the difficult choice they have to make, but also on how to live a better life.

Common Ground?

North by Northwest

Actually, this seems a good starting point.

North by Northwest

Well, Kenny, seems you've met that somebody ;-) But I wouldn't dream of pressing you or anybody else for that matter after such a clear declaration. I'll respect that and continue googleing...

Kenny Pierce

As far as thoughts put forth by the anti-abortion camp:

1. I am anti-abortion to what most would consider a pretty extreme degree, but for my own reasons that are shared by very few others in the pro-life movement. I doubt very seriously that the pro-life movement as a whole would be very interested in my axioms and reasoning because they proceed from a very deep, foundational regard for human rights that the Religious Right (if I may speak frankly) has historically seemed to find pretty inconvenient in attempting to roll out its full agenda. I start with deeply libertarian axioms and yet wind up at the same place the pro-lifers do; but we get there by very different roads. So I don't think I'll attempt to speak for them.

2. Abortion is the one topic I sort of promised myself I wouldn't ever blog about because I'm not sure I can ever remember meeting anybody who was prepared to change his/her mind on the subject. If ever there were a subject where the only thing you could expect to do would be to make enemies...

Kenny Pierce

NxN,

One thing I notice, rereading that "primer," is that I left out all the middle-of-the-road states, who will (if left in peace by Congress) come up with fifteen different compromises, with much comparing of notes. That is precisely the sort of laboratory that the Tenth Amendment allows for and that parties in national ascendance want to trample upon. (E.g., the No Child Left Behind...sorry, can't finish that sentence because ladies might be present.)

Now, it happens that I think that abortion is more like slavery than it is like school finance and that in the end no compromises are going to survive long-term, but this is the way the process is supposed to work: the states get fifty shots at coming up with something everybody can live with, and if in the end national uniformity is required one way or the other, you AMEND THE FRICKIN' CONSTITUTION -- not pretend that it says something it doesn't.

North by Northwest

No, Kenny, I'm not asking you to defend abortion on the basis of religious doctrine or on any other basis, as it were. I am however troubled with the many grey shades that exist between black ("over-the-counter abortion") and white (blanket outlaw) and how to address them. I am interested, what thoughts are being put forward by the anti abortion camp in that regard.

Kenny Pierce

NxN,

Now that one will take a little while to respond to and I have work to do this afternoon, but one thing I can say very quickly: if you want somebody to defend the thesis that we should outlaw abortion "on the basis that scripture says so" you can bloody well find somebody to defend it besides me. ;-)

North by Northwest

Kenny,

Thank you for this most helpful primer! I had not considered the Tenth Amendment and Congress' ability to impose nationwide restrictions on abortion.

I am also clear on the notion of legislating from the bench in this context. The aspect of outlawing abortion outright however always causes me problems. How are families and communities meant to deal with pregnancies following 'soft-rape', especially amongst teenagers from low-income households? I don't need to tell you the wide variety of circumstances in which being born virtually constitutes a life-sentence of hell on earth. If the mother condemns herself to eternal purgatory due to her choice to abort, well, that's her choice, and her burden before God when the time comes, and God the Almighty, may in fact not condemn her because He knows, sees and hears all. But we don't. The aborted Soul will make it to earth one way or another - and I don't mean that flippantly. But how can we as a society force this child into certain hell on the basis that scripture says so (there are of course other biblical laws and principals which are both more frequently and more unambiguously outlined and yet not even contemplated for the basis of legislation...), whilst, as soon as the abortion was successfully prevented, not only stand back, but in fact turn around, walk away, utterly disappear and never, and I mean never ever even give this 'lifer' another thought. And that on a large scale. Because, all good intent aside (adoption, community reach-out, et al.) isn't it far more likely that that's going to be the harsh reality in the vast majority of all such cases?

Kenny Pierce

NxN,

No, because the policy enforced by Roe v. Wade is an extreme policy that could not be established nationwide through any means other than judicial hijacking of the Constitution. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, Louisiana will outlaw abortions the very next day and Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, etc. will not be very far behind. Right now everybody has to live by the Left's rules even though the majority of Americans have never supported those rules. The Left doesn't want to give that up; they'll never reestablish through democratic means the level of control they kept for fifty years through abuse of the judicial power.

On the other hand Massachusettes will have state laws in place explicitly guaranteeing the right to partial-birth abortion before the Louisiana legislature even makes it into session. So all is not necessarily lost even if Roe v. Wade falls.

The radically liberal states will put into place legislative regimes that mimic the existing state of affairs; the radically conservative states of the Bible Belt will outlaw practically all abortions; and over the following couple of decades we'll see which way works best. In the meantime the blue states will get bluer and the red states will get redder as America's sexually active singles (the most enthusiastic supporters of abortion-on-demand) head north and east, and America's conservative married couples head for God's Country.

But this, too, is a bad thing for liberalism, because it accelerates one of the worst long-term political problems that liberalism has: conservatives have more kids than liberals, and in a democracy, that sets up a permanent drift toward conservative majorities. As the people whose primary interest is in not having children congregate in the blue states, and the people who want children congregate in the red states, the balance in the House of Representatives will (all other things being equal) shift slowly but inexorably toward the red states.

And all this assumes -- a huge and probably false assumption -- that a Republican-controlled Congress doesn't impose sweeping nation-wide restrictions on abortion under the same old lame premise that "interstate commerce" is involved. Quite frankly, if I were the liberal Democrats I'd be at least as worried about getting a judge who will take the Tenth Amendment seriously as about getting a judge who will preserve Roe v. Wade. Roe v. Wade will eventually fall because it is supported neither by the text of the Constitution nor by the will of the people; the fight to preserve it is just a Long Defeat, and the collateral damage done in the process to liberalism (which is forced to defend an uncompromisingly extreme position in a country that highly values moderation) is enormous. Kos-style liberalism is not a majority viewpoint and is in fact rejected by a majority of Americans (not that the majority can necessarily agree on what they want instead of Kossackism, but they agree they don't want Kossackism). The far left is simply not going to be able to keep control of the entire nation. But it could keep control of particular enclaves within the nation more or less indefinitely -- as long as the Tenth Amendment were respected. Which, thanks to FDR and every Washington politician in the decades since, it is not. Oops. Bad news for the libs.

So I think that the Left's focus on Roe v. Wade is incredibly short-sighted; and their attempt to make the entire country live by the Left's rules (including the huge swaths of the country that passionately reject the Left's axioms and principles), will in the long run backfire by leaving them no rational grounds for complaint when a temporarily ascendant conservativism imposes its rules in its turn. (Not the lack of rational grounds for complaint will keep the Left from complaining, of course.)

Tenth Amendment, Teddy! Go for a judge who believes in the Tenth Amendment! Otherwise, not only will you not be able to keep America; but you won't even be able to keep control of Massachusettes.

North by Northwest

Kenny,

What you say about Alito is encouraging and also my understanding. So, I second "Go, go, Alito"!

And, you couldn't have put it better in your next comment. It almost seems to me, that by and large, the fight between R and D over Roe v. Wade et al. is actually much more based on mistrust rather than facts. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you are right in your assessment of Alito, and if most Democrats thought so too, wouldn't that put their fears to rest?

Kenny Pierce

Alexandra,

Here's the trackback you were after:

In Go, go, Alito, Redneck Peril says, "At last, in Alito, we have what we ought to have had all along -- what we certainly didn't get in the case of Miers and didn't even really get in the case of Roberts..."

Kenny Pierce

NxN,

Science can determine material facts, but that is not enough for law to govern. Philosophy/theology -- and when it comes to ethics any particular ethical philosophy entails implicit theological presuppositions -- has to establish right and wrong. Then law can govern. Both halves of natural law (not necessarily understood in the Catholic sense) must be addressed correctly before positive law can be sound and effective.

Kenny Pierce

Alexandra,

I don't count as a liberal, but maybe a half-liberal, since I would be outraged if the five Catholic Supremes (counting Alito) were to declare that the penumbrae of the implications of the rights hinted at by the Constitution involved an absolute right to fetal life that could not be limited or set aside by the people acting through the legislative branch, short of Constitutional amendment. I am delighted with the Alito appointment because I think that if Alito were to be asked to reconsider Roe v. Wade, or a hypothetical Woe v. Rade in which the Supremes were asked to invent a newly Constitutional right to fetal life, he would in either case say, "The Constitution doesn't say a bloody thing about this, and my personal opinion is irrelevant, as are whatever histrionics the Pope may choose to indulge in; so the people will have to work it out for themselves through the democratic process." I don't think what the people will come up with is likely to be satisfactory either to myself or to the Pope, or, for that matter, to Barbra Streisand, or even to Samuel Alito; but I bloody well know it's the people's prerogative to work out a solution, not the Supreme Court's. And I think that Alito will respect the people's prerogative in that respect.

Does that make me count as one-half of a liberal ally?

Alexandra

SIGGIE,

I have just decided I am going to call you Siggie, you know it's laughable, whenever I am linking you which as of late has been often indeed, (you have such great articles), I am struggling to remember, and have been known to call you Sigmund Carl & Albert (thinking of Einstein of course), luckily not as a link but on one of Anchoress' comments section. Mortally embarrassing...that really was the last straw...

Anyway, having read lately some spectacular posts of yours on dem. related subjects, I would like to ask you what you think we are going to need for this fight in way of ammunition? In order to answer let's for discussion purposes take out the nuclear attack as obviously that would be too fatalistic.

So? Unity we have, which is extremely important in every sense.....do we have some libs on our side (I am preparing a post on that one today...the photographs always take an unreasonable amount of time..no one realizes really simply seeing the result), so what else?

North by Northwest
Look for a lot of deceit

Ah, but they'll have to deal with the right-wing blogoshpere, won't they. As it happens, I abhorred some of the rhetoric used to voice their opposition to the Miers nomination, but, in keeping with military metaphors, maybe such voices are now a good ally to have in times of 'war'. Nah, just kidding...

sigmund, carl and alfred

Excelent updates- the emerging theme can be discerned.

That said, expect the dems to hit back- and hit back hard. The 527's have learned a lesson from the Miers debacle: The very threat of witholding money from office holders is enough to trigger a desired response. Look for the hard left to play hardball. The 'nuclear option' will emerge, so to say. The hard left have to have a win, as they cannot point to anything substantive they have achieved, as the results of two elections indicate. Alito is a target they will want to set their sites on. Look for a lot of deceit.

North by Northwest

Alexandra,

"Where science determines the facts, the law can effectively govern. [...]"

What about this thought-provoking stand: Former reporter and bureau chief for The Washington Post, Patricia E. Bauer's warning that prenatal testing techniques have shifted the medical question from an ability to abort babies judged to be defective to a duty to abort.

Columnist George F. Will, father of Jon Will, an ardent baseball fan also born with Down syndrome, writes: "In Britain, more babies with Down syndrome are aborted than are allowed to be born. In America, more than 80 percent of the babies diagnosed prenatally with Down syndrome are aborted. This is dismaying to, among others, the American Association of People with Disabilities, whose premise is that "disability is a natural part of the human experience"."

Even when science does determine the facts, as is the case in this issue due to ever improving prenatal testing techniques, the law can effectively govern, but ought not to. It seems to me, that self-determination is the appropriate way forward on delicate issues such as this - especially when considering the emotional side of things. And I mean for both camps!

From the little I've heard about Alito, he considers each case on its own merits, one at a time. That's encouraging for a start.

North by Northwest

Senator Schumer's statement yesterday, that he feared that Judge Alito might reverse the gains that Rosa Parks worked for, is certainly a stunning statement. It's absurd to say anything like this but it certainly is a good barometer for what's to come.

Alexandra

Yes, and now of course, commentators on NRO's Corner are pacifying: "Alito is a careful jurist committed to the rule of law, not a "pro-life" judge or a "pro-choice" judge."

This sounds remarkably like:

"Where science determines the facts, the law can effectively govern. However, when science cannot determine the facts and decisions vary based upon religious belief, then government should not act. I do not mean to make very complex, emotional issues too simplistic. But some of these issues do not need to be as complicated as they have become if people deal with each other with respect and even reverence." (H Miers)

Sorry, I can't help myself...

Jeff Stiles

Let's hope we can all stand behind our President and support his choice this time around. And let's hope Alito never served donuts at his local church because, as we've learned the past three weeks, a humble and Christ-focused life is what REALLY scares conversatives and liberals alike.

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