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Friday, December 30, 2005

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Kenny

Drew,

It isn't like that with most religions, you know. Though if you don't see a difference between raping or killing somebody, and warning them that you think they're in danger of going to hell, I can see how you would be confused on that point. It's pretty silly not to be able to make that distinction -- if you were to warn me that if I kept eating chicken-fried steak then I would be in danger of having a heart attack, and I were to go around telling people you were an evil person who was trying to kill me, wouldn't you think I was a bit unreasonable? Still, a very great many people have been raised to believe that warning somebody that something bad will happen to them, and taking it upon yourself to make something bad happen to somebody, are the same thing -- if the subject is religion.

But maybe you didn't mean that and just misspoke. And to your core point from your first paragraph: I couldn't agree more.

drew

wow, the one thing that angers me the most about a situation such as this one, is that, people such as yourself, who bring up these topics, are the ones that would take criticism for it, because the islamic community views this as you be racist or prejudice.

woman that dont wear a headscarf are asking to be raped huh... wow. One of the many reason I dont follow an organzied religion is this. these people actually belive that no one is better than them, they can control whatever they want, when they want, how they want, its like this with most religions, its kind of a you believe it, or a rape or kill you, and you go to hell sort of thing.

anyways, i have nothing more to say about this subject before i get too mad.

Darrell

Research, truth, and facts are the green Kryptonite of the Left. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you...

Liquid

I don't think I made myself too clear in the previous post, but my point Josh is that there is great controversy on this matter within the muslim world on what is legit or not concerning the temporary marriages and islamic law or hadiths. But in the interview where the woman is being accused of being unfair to the shia because she is a sunni, I wanted everyone to know that it is a sunni practice, yet if you do some research on it, the Nikah Mut'ah is the second form of marriage described in the Qur'an, verse 4:24. It is a fixed time marriage which, according to the schools of Shariah (Islamic law), is a marriage with a preset duration. After this period expires, the marriage is automatically dissolved. This is the most controversial fiqh topic; Sunnis and Shia hold diametrically opposed views on its permissibility after Muhammad's era. So given different names and islamic backed up verses it is still a temporary marriage which this woman is trying to say is causing great hardship for the women and children and is used many times for prostitution! For example men were literally using their cellphones to say I divorce you three times to end marriages and then there were also the rich old saudi men that were going to places like the Philippines or Malaysia to take on poor young girls for one night using this method! All I ask Josh is for you to do a little research on the matter before getting all emotional at the messengers that bring this to light.

Liquid

Josh's QUOTE"I'm sorry, but you're a dipshit.
She pretty clearly contradicts him that Shi'a law doesn't allow these kinds of pleasure-marriages, doesn't authorize this kind of behavior. She very plainly repeats "Authorized by religious law!?" in disbelief.If you can actually show where it's authorized, if you can come up with the fatwa, THEN you can say something about Islam."
_______________________________________


Maybe you should take it up with the Sunni since it is their practice! Misyar is an exclusively Sunni practice; Shia use the Nikah Mut'ah form which they conclude has proper legitimacy. Misyar marriage has been practiced in Saudi Arabia and Egypt for many years. It was legalized in Saudi Arabia by a fatwa issued by Sheikh Abdul 'Azeez ibn Abdullaah ibn Baaz and was officially legalized in Egypt by the Egyptian Sunni Imam Sheikh Muhammad Sayid Tantawy in 1999. The Mufti of Egypt is a staunch defender of Misyar marriage.The practice of Misyar marriage is often different from the original intent for creating this institution. Wealthy Kuwaiti and Saudi men sometimes enter into a Misyar marriage while on vacation. This allows them to have sexual relations with another woman without committing the sin of zina. They travel to poor countries, such as Egypt or Syria, and meet middlemen who arrange a marriage for them. Some men arrange Misyar marriages online. The middleman brings some girls and they pick the one that they like most. These men pay the girl's family some money.
SOURCE

Alexandra

"but you're a [deleted by ATB]"

"you need to quit being a racist [deleted by ATB] and remember that European Christians behaved in similar ways during the Middle Ages."

Josh, you sound like an angry young man, but don't mistake me for an idiot. I don't appreciate your language, nor does it do your argument any credit citing what we did in the middle ages. Thankfully we don't live in the middle ages, even if the entire Muslim world does.

If you have got lost somewhere on the way to Atrios, where language like this is accepted, I suggest you find your way there again, where you can rant and rave till your heart's content and call each other names. On this blog we argue civilly, be it from the left or right.

I noticed on the other thread with 80 odd commenters and 15 000 people on the thread at this moment, you gave lucid arguments and merely used the word 'idiot'. What's the matter, felt outnumbered there but feel the bravado welling up here?

Either be civil Josh. or bugger off!

Wahrheit

Thank you for pointing this video out and giving us the opportunity to see and learn. As I watched it, the disgust and horror were tempered with an overwhelming admiration for this woman and the others like her who are speaking out. May many more like her come forth.

Josh

I'm sorry, but you're a [deleted by ATB]

She pretty clearly contradicts him that Shi'a law doesn't allow these kinds of pleasure-marriages, doesn't authorize this kind of behavior. She very plainly repeats "Authorized by religious law!?" in disbelief.

If you can actually show where it's authorized, if you can come up with the fatwa, THEN you can say something about Islam. Until then, you need to quit being a racist [deleted by ATB] and remember that European Christians behaved in similar ways during the Middle Ages.

Liquid

It's shocking isn't it for our ears and eyes to see the horrible oppression and abuse that these women and children have and do still endure under the "islamic" hand! But the point I want to make here is that it seems to not be new to anyone but the western world. Seems its an education for those that prior to 911 never had given islam or the koran much thought at all. The deception of the "religion of peace" had already laid seeds that had sprouted. This political movement which is disguised as a religion is a force that has been working overtime. Even today, if you were to speak to some of the "westernized female muslims" and tried to discuss some of the horrific acts done in the name of allah or punishments handed down by laws which are enforced via sharia as they are dictated by and with koranic verses, their responses would suprise many, because they would smuggly remind you that "their husband doesn't lay a hand on them" or that "they have never seen such behavior and anyway it doesn't effect them because it is over 'there' and only due to culture differences which us westerners just do not understand or are too sheltered to comprehend -- which always leaves my blood a bit at a high boil temp, since I do realise that many muslims, especially the converted women through marriages or those 2nd or 3rd generations that are born in and are privy to the luxury of the west have truly been decieved into a watered down islam themselves and are not bearing the hardship or fear under sharia law. Little do they want to accept tha it is pushing it's way inch by inch into the fabric of their world.

The silence of what is taking place infuriates me because what so many will not do today is discuss the radical changes in their mosque or community over the past 2 or 3 years. Even the educated muslim will stay one step ahead by moving or looking the other way. The influx of more immigrants and the bullying by islamic organizations such as the muslim brotherhood into mosques and communities, which might have been seen as a possible group of people wanting to have a taste of freedom in Europe and places like Egypt where they are common power of fear on the streets. This "dominate the world and make it all islamic attitude" is growing not only recruiting the muslims, community by community, but others too! Inside the USA it is the wahabi and their saudi money being thrown around and more and more infilterating into the universaties and political circles, in Germany it is the Turks, and we already have seen the out of control response in France with their riots! And how can anyone look the other way and not get the message by these madmen when a man is murdered in the streets of Denmark with a note left in his chest? The message is always the same: Don't question or insult the mighty mission that the koran is perpetuating! What was once kept inside the "family" is now being administered to what they call the "infidel"

So why is it that every conflict with muslims around the world is diverted to making them (the muslims) the victims of some racial bias such as we have seen in Australia or the UK? Do people need to be reminded that Islam is not a race? Because being muslim doesn't invite you into any race status! Yet the islamic world is using tolerance and the race card to manipulate all that will buy into it!

When will the western world wake up and stop tolerating the intolerable such as honor killings or hate speeches inside those mosque in their communities? When will the western world define who we are and stand up for that? Why should we conform to changing who we are? Why should our children be forced to do the changing and the tolerating? Why should we give up our freedoms to accomodate to a way of thinking that is expressed and defined with a forked tongue?

There has been so much bloodshed over the years for our precious freedom and it's time we realised that the type of oppressions that we escaped years ago is at our doorstep rattling at the window. It might be disguised in another form but it is here just the same to rob us of everything our ancestors fought for and what makes the average American really mad is the fact that we are being bullied for being free! So I suggest to all Americans, if you blog or whatever you do to express yourself...speak out on how you feel about these issues because in time, our freedom of oppinion, will be the next thing on their list to take away from us! They know that it is our truth they must stop and they will use every tactical tool available to them to duct tape the flow of freedom of speech; especially when it exposes their agenda!

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