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Friday, December 02, 2005

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My February post's warnings that I thought would come to pass in a few years are now tumbling into place in a matter of months. Both of these recent readings aroused in me such a frisson of foreboding that I decided to update my post here. When al... [Read More]

Comments

Joseph Marshall

I'm sorry, Jeff, I wrote too quickly, too harshly, and too thoughtlessly. I have thought the matter through more clearly in making a post over at The Anchoress' on the same issue.

The protest does have some point, though I think it is directed to an organization that is unlikely to be influenced by it, so it is but a gesture to relieve the feelings.

I also do not believe the ACLU are bigots, and I do think most, if not all, of the Season's Greetings equivocations are essentially self-censorship in response to "regulation by raised eyebrow", particularly those involving private property such as discount stores. This is perfectly amenable to the sort of public pressure the Christmas cards represent, and I think Nervous Nelly merchants would be a far better target for them.

An examination of what the ACLU actually does in the area of religion will show anyone that they defend both the non-establishment clause and the free expression clause. They may not interpret these the same way you do but they are hardly an "enemy within" and neither am I.

jeff stiles

Thanks for the info, Jess. I've forwarded the address to those on my email list.

And yes, Joseph, I suppose this may be a way of peacefully showing the bigots in the ACLU the huge support Christmas has in this country. Thanks for the reminder of why I do what I do! :)

Joseph Marshall

I suppose that the emotions behind the Christmas card campaign are part of the "true meaning of Christmas".

jess1dering

ACLU
"Wishing You Merry Christmas"
125 Broad Street
18th Floor
New York, NY 10004 And my precious friends, here is the address , in case you'd like to send your Christmas greeting to another 'enemy within'. Thought you might like to join the campaign.

jess1dering

And here we have the redesigned (ahem) Pa. memorial. They are a most stubborn and boldly unresponsive bunch, aren't they? http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2005/11/redesigned-flight-93-memorial-still_30.html

spiritofecstasy

Jeff Stiles,

That is an important perspective which counters the high speed and strangely part-isan spin machine of MSMedia and political institutions.

Approximate casualty figures:

US CIVIL WAR: 600,000

(Not sure?)
WWI: 100,000??? I know one theory has it that influenza killed so many people worldwide that there literally weren't enough people to fight.

VIETNAM: 58,000

IRAQ: 2,000+

-0-

Sig, Carl, Al,

The highly promoted rise of Islamics in Europe is peculiar. The States, such as France, are secular but they allow these "blatantly" extremist Muslim immigrants to scream religion religion religion under the guise of some egalitarian civil liberties. What comes first? Civil Liberties as Egalitarianism or Islam as Totalitarianism?

The mosques just bristle with one single psychological mechanism. The same rhetoric from Iran, to Paris, to Saudi Arabia, to the Netherlands, to VA USA, to everywhere.

Who Knew?

Joseph Marshall

Well, let's take 'em in order.

If the answer is anything but a resounding rejection of such doctrine, made publicly and unhesitatingly, deportation to their blessed homeland as currently requested by the UK government seems a step in the right direction as a solution.

There are a lot of countries in Europe and your bandwidth is not infinite, so I'll confine myself to two examples. This is what the Belgian Muslim advocacy group the Arab European League has to say:

we believe in a multicultural society as a social and political model where different cultures coexist with equal rights under the law....We do not want to assimilate and we do not want to be stuck somewhere in the middle. We want to foster our own identity and culture while being law abiding and worthy citizens of the countries where we live.

Would we ask anything more of our immigrants here?

And here is what the British publication, The Muslim Student Survey, Voice of Muslim Students had to say:

The overwhelming majority of Muslim students unequivocally condemn the [July 7th] London attacks, with only 4% failing to do so. On suspecting someone is going to carry out a terrorist attack, almost three-quarters of our respondents said they would immediately go to the police, and of the remainder, 48% said they would do so after trying to first talk the person out of it. 9% of those who would not inform the police, felt they could not go to the police because they couldn't trust them or they feared them.

Is anybody listening?

You seem to be up to challenges, Alexandra, so I have one for you. Take two or three days, scroll down through this site--http://fatemathoughts.blogspot.com/, read a good selection of the posts, and put up a report here of what you find there.

Moreover, lets look at some more intractable facts. There are 44 million Muslims in Europe as a whole, 1 million in Spain, 1.5 million in the UK, just less than 1 million in Italy, just less than 1 million in the Netherlands, 350 thousand in Belgium, 3 million in Germany, and 4.5 million in France [Wikipedia].

The general drift of your solution is not without precedent in European history. Stalin's re-arrangement of Eastern European populations after World War II comes immediately to mind. But the precedents are not comfortable ones and certainly following them to any length would be a tremendous inconvenience.

But I want to make perfectly clear that this is the logical extention of much of the overheated rhetoric in the posts you have cited.

Now let's examine the Professor's solution.

I think someone is going to have to finally topple the Mullah's regime, and quickly; I see no greater threat to the world right now. Iranian long-range missiles can already reach Europe

With what army? A good one-third of our regular combat troops are currently committed abroad and, since we will be "staying the course", they are not really available.

Another third would take an absolute emergency minimum of four months to be ready to go back [normally this takes 12 months].

The last third could be deployed. This would string out between 300,000 and 500,000 of our troops, or two thirds of our combat units, across an area stretching from the Syrian border to the Pakistani border! A mere glance at the map will show you how untenable this is. Particularly since 150,000 of our troops have so little control of Iraq.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/global-deployments.htm

Moreover, there would be no fighting reseves available for four months, and all tours of duty would have to be frozen for years.

I think the good Professor should spend a little less time reading Classical Islamic Theory, and a little more time studying the history of the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon. He would find it very illuminating.

Let's then consider a comparison with the two of our other wars. Our War On Terror began in November 2001. We have just passed November of 2005. Hostilities in the Civil War began in April 1861. By April of 1865 the Confederacy had surrendered. In World War II our state of war began in December of 1941. By December of 1941 both Germany and Japan had surrendered.

We have hardly gotten this far with our Muslim enemies around the world.

Finally, in both of those wars over four years there was an immense mobilization of America for total war. Moreover, when tactics failed to work, they were changed, sometimes quite drasticly. In both cases the war being fought at the end would not have been even recognizable to the soliders who marched out in the beginning.

Four years have passed and the President proposes to neither change the tactics nor make any more than a minimum commitment to the War On Terror, despite our relative lack of success defeating our primary enemies.

As you can see, Jeff, I really haven't forgotten.

spiritofecstasy

If you are an idealist then this will appear cynical but that is not the motive in this comment. Think of this as a Trojan Horse with a label on the side; Parts made in Arabia, Assembled in Russia, Debt financed partially by China, consumer info dial; 1-800=BLAME-THE-JEWS-IN-ISRAEL.

All nations pursue their own interests. It is realpolitik in real time, all the time. The pattern/s are behind the fashion of all history.

The Arab Nations have supplied known reserve hydrocarbons for most of the last century and continue to do such. They have accumulated wealth which is power and made alliances which is power. One assumes they have a reason for being the birthplace of global guerilla warfare also known as terror-ism. A reason that would be opposed to consolidating their power corporately within a deregulated Democracy. Your guess as to why, is as good as mine.

It is important to note that mineral-rich petroleum represents: crop fertilizers used worldwide, pharmaceuticals, vitamins, plastics, paint and coatings, fuels -of course- including much of the heating represented by all those chimneys. The demand is enormous. I saw an intel officier on cable tv and he said alqaeda will never take Saudi Arabia uncontested or otherwise because the oil is a "World Resource" meaning all the power in the World would stop them. Oil is power.

Maybe, just maybe that is why French leaders blatantly shy away from the obvious with such arrogance. And why there are some thousand Islamic schools in the US and thirty some offices of CAIR in North America with it's own blatant ties to guerilla warfare terrorism. And maybe the Israeli Democracy threatens Middle East Monarchies. Maybe it is just used as an excuse to maintain the profitable class structure of monarchies/theocracies by blaming all ills on an outside minority. Oil is power, far reaching. Maybe this is why jr.marxist Leftists keep appearing out of the cool blue with bizarre pro-Arab-pro-Islamic petitions, organizations and statements.

If you have a bag marbles and they are all blue but the guy selling them says; they are assorted colors, READ the label. I'd say he wants to sell cool blue marbles at a higher profit than the marbles are worth.

The responsibility, or blame, or amoral accomplishment seems to be assorted colors though.

jeff stiles

Joseph said: "Three years and the process is still "ongoing"!"

It's truly amazing all that HAS been accomplished in those years!

Remember how long it took to fight nearly every other war in our nation's history?

Remember how many of our nation's young men were lost in our own battle for independence, or during the so-called Civil War?

Remember how many years it took to get our own Constitution figured out?

How soon we forget . . .

Alexandra

Joseph,

So you want Europe to wake up and do what? Forbid Muslims to worship? Ban the construction of Mosques? Force convert them to Christianity? Force convert them to secularism?

Sweeping generalization of course, but to stay in that 'spirit', I say to you, it depends on each and everY Muslim's stance on whether or not in their understanding Islam condones and justifies violence and oppression in order to expand its teachings and territories. If the answer is anything but a resounding rejection of such doctrine, made publicly and unhesitatingly, deportation to their blessed homeland as currently requested by the UK government seems a step in the right direction as a solution.

Perhaps The Professor could address the question. [...] So if it's so terrible, what do we do about it?

The Professor did in fact answer exactly your question in another thread:

"...I think someone is going to have to finally topple the Mullah's regime, and quickly; I see no greater threat to the world right now. Iranian long-range missiles can already reach Europe, and after they have obtained nuclear weapons and destroyed Israel, as President Ahmedinejad so kindly informed us a few weeks ago that he plans to do, he will then turn his attention, for instance, toward United States troops in the Muslim world: the Arabian peninsula, Afghanistan, Iraq...
A nuclear Iran would be a nightmare for the world. They have openly declared that they are prepared to use those weapons when they get them, and that they also don't mind sacrificing a few million "martyrs" of their own population along the way to attaining their goals. Presumably, Europe and the US WOULD mind losing a few million civilian inhabitants- not to mention the cities they inhabit- so Iran possesses a distinct tactical advantage.
As for the historical aspects of Islamic expansionism: Let's just say that building an Empire over most of the known world, from the Atlantic to India, including swallowing up the entire Sassanian Empire and most of the Eastern Roman Empire and 3 of the 5 Christian Patriarchates (including the ancient Patriarchates of Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem, incidentally) within 70 years of Muhammad's death, wasn't accomplished by a "peaceful" Jihad.
Classical Islamic theory recognizes "Dar al-Islam" (the "Abode of Islam") and "Dar al-Harb" (the "Abode of War"). The latter is destined, eventually, to be absorbed into the former, so that God's will can rule over all the earth. Islam is in this, as it claims to be in so many other aspects, the "Middle Path"; whereas Judaism is territorial but not universal (only the Land of Israel needs to be a Jewish polity), and Christianity is universal but not territorial ("my Kingdom is not of this world"), Islam is both universal AND territorial.
Until the West begins to pay attention to what Muslims are saying in Arabic, Persian and Urdu, rather than what their apologists spout forth for foreign consumption, we will continue to be in the situation of England under Chamberlain. Let us hope that our political leadership wakes up before it is too late..."
[end quote]

sigmund, carl and alfred

The fact is, Europe abandoned religion a long time ago. As a consequence, Europeans are uniquely ill equipped to deal with Islam- or for that matter, any other religious issues.

You cannot be on a dive team if you can't swim, no matter how much you believe your dive form is flawless and graceful.

Europeans are in effect, talking about God and religion from the bleachers. They are not players, don't know the rules or even the nuances of the game.

All the while, the Euro Muslims are leading them on, applauding them as equals- as long as they tow the Islamic line.

Joseph Marshall

So you want Europe to wake up and do what? Forbid Muslims to worship? Ban the construction of Mosques? Force convert them to Christianity? Force convert them to secularism? Perhaps The Professor could address the question.

I really do wonder where my good friends put the part of themselves that balances their checkbooks, gets the oil changed in their auto, or buys a new winter coat when they discuss this issue.

And it is isn't just the people on blogs. This time the President's recycled rhetoric finally comes with something committed to writing: a highly useful Executive Summary of his "victory plan".

The summary describes the sum total of our success in Iraq as follows:

Much has been accomplished in Iraq, including the removal of Saddam's tyranny, negotiation of an interim constitution, restoration of full sovereignty, holding of free national elections, formation of an elected government, drafting of a permanent constitution, ratification of that constitution, introduction of a sound currency, gradual restoration of Iraq's neglected infrastructure, and the ongoing training and equipping of Iraq's security forces.

Absolutely nothing in this list is in any way a "security" success. Not one thing. On that score, as of today, we are starting from square one. Three years and the process is still "ongoing"!

The absolute best you can say is that these "successes" might someday lead to a security success. No tangible ground in the area of Iraqi security has been gained by what we have been doing. None.

This blunt and intractible fact simply cannot be argued away. And the attempt by the Executive Summary to argue it away is utterly silly.

The plan proposes "progress standards" for security such as the number of "intelligence tips" obtained and the number of "operations conducted". It goes on to assert that such things are of more "strategic importance" than the actual number of bombings.

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that the point of the intelligence tips and the military operations is to diminish the bombings. And whatever presidential advisor put together this argument simply forgot to balance his mental checkbook, too.

Europe is the model for the place we want Iraq to get to: a parlimentary democracy in form, with a robust economy, exceptionally competent security services, stable national institutions, and a high degree of personal freedom.

And Europe still has an "islamic militancy" problem? Europe is still in danger?

The Muslim world from Morroco to the Phillipines, from southern Russia to sub-saharan Africa is also an intractible fact. It is not going to be argued away either.

Nor is the presence of Muslims anywhere else in the world.

So if it's so terrible, what do we do about it?

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