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Tuesday, March 28, 2006

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Comments

Raimondo

Michael...I agree!

Michael (van der) Galien

Raimondo,

I agree.

The important thing to me, is that we should recognize the fact that quite some people who come from countries like Somalia, take their 'culture' their 'habits' with them, when they come to Europe / USA.
When they are used to oppressing their women in their home countries, they will do the same thing here, why would they suddenly change all of that?
That is why it is so important that people like Ayaan Hirshi Ali (insiders) stand up and say what's really going on in so many (Muslim) families. Insiders know what's going on far better than 'outsiders' like me.
Once we are aware of the treatment of women in (Muslim or immigrants from certain countries...) families we can do something about it.

Raimondo

Alexandra,

An interesting Boston based artist who's subject matter is centered around the Islamic woman, is Ambreen Butt. She was trained in the miniaturist tradition in Pakistan, her work is quite evocative and poetic. She exhibits at Bernard Toale in Boston.

Another woman who crosses cultures in the same vein is Saskia Sikhander. Also trained in the miniaturist tradition.

Both artists employ a visual language born in another culture and they re-tool their native visual vocabulary often to express the woman's position in the world. In my view Ambreen is the more terse, poetic of the two. It's deep work that is born out of her own struggle to reconcile the two cultures Islam and the West and her own more private individual reality.

I don't know Ambreen's political views. But her work is interesting and worth looking at.

Raimondo

Michael,

I grew up in Somalia, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Somali. From first hand knowledge of how oppressive society can be there. I can tell you that she is a person of extraordinary courage and extraordinary intelligence. I am very pleased that more people know her and are reading her book. I'm sure off course that in Holland everybody knows her, because of her prominent position and because of the Van Gogh tragedy.

I'm also glad that I'm not the only one reading people like her and Orianna Fallacci, because amongst a lot of ordinary people here I come across as someone who is an alarmist, or negative and not all inclusive. Like I'm on some kind of a hate crusade. It saddens me. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just reacting to a situation I watched devolve in Somalia first, and now I can't help but observe the first creepy signs in Europe and in the US. I sincerely hope our children will be able to live the free lives we have had the priviledge of living. In my case I also hope my children never have to see what my parents and siblings saw happen in Somalia.

Keep up the good work.

Susan

I come here often and never leave disappointed. Thank you for your excellent posts. I have put the address to another blog below that has yet another article about Islam's treatment of women; it may be of some interest to you and your readers (I sent it to "Sigmund, Carl and Alfred" also but some time ago). The author provides some further links.

http://www.rosenblog.com/2004/06/11/irans_pimpmullahs.html

Thank you again and kind regards,
Susan

Michael (van der) Galien

For every American who is interested, I found a book of Ayaan on Amazon: click here.

Michael (van der) Galien

Yes Ayaan Hirshi Ali's book is a must read indeed Raimundo. I, of course, read it in Dutch. It is called "De Zoontjesfabriek" (The sonsfactory) - about the role of women in Islamic cultures - they're just useful to 'breed' so to speak.

Raimondo

Oh Man! Alexandra this is in my view possibly the post that most goes to the crux of the matter of what Islam has in store for the world.

We have to keep at it! Keep the truth out in the open!

Maybe someday even Liberals will come around and recognize what is going on... We have to realize that this issue is one involving an ever increasing number of women, both in Islamic countries and in Western countries with an Islamic population.

Two books to read: Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Book and Daniela Santanche' s book. I have them in Italian I don't know if they are available in English yet.

Great Job! Alexandra! Keep at it! Pehaps in the future we will hear our outrage being echoed from within the walls of "the Religion of Peace"!

gringoman

Which is stronger and more determined: the Islamic intention to continue "honor killing," or the West's feelings against "honor killing"?

(New at gringoman: "El Commandante's Underwear" with drawing.)

North by Northwest

One of the criticisms most often leveled against the West is its morbid love for material wealth. Reading the Amnesty International essay, it emerges soon enough, that this entire barbarity of so called 'Honor Killing' is All based on material greed. As AI points out:

A major consideration is the young woman's future inheritance rights over family property or assets. "In Pakistan, feudal and tribal custom dictate that property be kept in the family. It is not uncommon for girls to be married to a paternal uncle or aunt's sons ... so that control over the estate (jagir) is not weakened which would happen if a daughter married an outsider. Feudals do not want their jagirs dismembered on any account. To keep daughters in the paternal family, they are sometimes married to paternal cousins 10-20 years younger than them (in some syed [descendant of the prophet] families of Punjab and Sindh, parents wait until a son is born to a paternal uncle). A girl 15-20 years old then raises her would-be husband. She has no choice. What if there is no paternal uncle available? Maternal cousins become acceptable in that situation. What if there is no maternal cousin? Then the woman has to undergo the ceremony of haq-baksh-wai (marriage with the Quran).(21) This is more common in Sindh. In Punjab daughters are kept unmarried till the age of menopause when they take up the Quran and Tasbih [prayer beads] voluntarily."(22) In June 1999, a brief report in the newspaper Dawn indicated that concern for property sometimes overrides concern for women's rights. Fatima Bibi of Jalalpur Pirwala, Multan district, had married Muhammad Umar against the wishes of her father. Intent to "save" his property by preventing his daughter's marriage, he invited the couple to his home, beat and locked up the husband, then forcibly married Fatima Bibi to the Quran. On 29 June 1999, Fatima Bibi committed suicide by hanging herself from a ceiling fan.(23)

AI calls it "The commodification of women". That's exactly what it is and it is yet another example of the many shameless and glaring hypocrisies expressed daily by Islamic states, clerics and apologists. It all stinks to high heaven.

Michael (van der) Galien

What I do not fully understand is why they do not include The Netherlands in that list. We all know honory killings have occured here as well.
At a certain moment people who committed honory killings received less severe punishment than those who 'just' murder. This went on for quite a while. Parliament / people became aware of that and they made clear that is simply unacceptable. A murder is a murder.
So nowadays they are, mostly, punished like they should be.

It is, however, quite a difficult social question. We found that fathers do not murder their daughters themselves, instead they force their sons to kill their sisters: Those sons are of course minors, thus they receive a less severe punishment.

Alexandra

From the Amnesty International USA link I provide in the main text:

Supreme Court lawyer Hina Jilani summarized the legal hurdles to prosecution in honour killings for an Amnesty International delegation: "The law really facilitates such killings. Killings are private offences, against the individual, not the state, so who will bring and pursue the charges of murder? If the father or brother kills a woman, the family of the girl will not pursue the case, as in their eyes no wrong has been done. If the husband kills in the family home, his family are the witnesses but they will not testify against him. There is no chance of bringing the killer to book... The prosecution case collapses on almost all the scenarios of an honour killing.

The large number of men murdering their wives are assured from the outset that such murder will not be punished in the same manner as the murder of other people but merely with a sentence of a few years' imprisonment. An article on violence against women in the HRCP Newsletter in January 1999 bluntly states: "After the promulgation of the Qisas and Diyat Ordinance, the number of extended family members ... accused of killing women has registered a phenomenal rise. Perhaps the possibility to circumvent the defective law accounts for this change in the pattern of maintaining family honour.

Huan

It all makes sense if you believe a woman is property. And property is more valuable when unblemished. It doesn't matter whose fault cause the blemish, but once blemished the property devaluates precipitously. What else can you do?

Despicable.

There is no room for cultural relativism.

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