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Monday, April 17, 2006

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» IRAN FORMS SUICIDE BOMB SQUAD from NEM's PLACE
iran...[Read More]

» Nanny Man from gringoman.com
Nanny Man in Iran: 'Wipe Israel off the map'? 'Conquer infidels'? 'Strangle the Great Satan'?... Hey, look, it's their rhetorical style. At least they're not Christians. Relax. Who would they nuke? What do you think they are---meshuga or something? [Read More]

» Iran secret P-2 Centrifuge from Stix Blog
When is the UN going to take the Iranian nuelar weapons program seriously. Why does a country that is oil-rich need nuclear power??? And why do they need a more powerful centrifuge to make more nuclear fuel??? Could it be [Read More]

» Iran secret P-2 Centrifuge from Stix Blog
When is the UN going to take the Iranian nuelar weapons program seriously. Why does a country that is oil-rich need nuclear power??? And why do they need a more powerful centrifuge to make more nuclear fuel??? Could it be [Read More]

» Iranian ~ AQ Khan Link? from The Agonist
Well, that's what David Sanger, a neo-con's tool if ever there was one, would like you to think. As Glenn writes: [T]he American media seems not just willing, but tongue-waggingly pleased, to be exploited and used again, in the best tradition of Pravda, [Read More]

» Iran on a mission from Freedom for Some
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad appears to be on a mission. A mission of death and destruction. The frightening truth of why Iran wants a bomb by Amir Taheri, a one time editor-in-chief for one of Irans largest newspapers. Last Monday, just be [Read More]

» Nanny Man from gringoman.com
Nanny Man in Iran: 'Wipe Israel off the map'? 'Conquer infidels'? 'Strangle the Great Satan'?... Hey, look, it's their rhetorical style. At least they're not Christians. Relax. Who would they nuke anyone? What do you think they are---meshuga or [Read More]

Comments

Stefan

Is it just me or is it a bit fishy that Iran reveals a brilliant new technology every other day? I that they shouldn’t be taken seriously or anything but this posturing should not fluster our thinking. As always, the one that keeps a cool head when things get crazy comes out on top.

epaminondas

Hamna, don't worry they will..
WE'RE WAITING...

We won't send any intentional suicide bombers to kill people out for lunch though, however, allow me to introduce you to our representatives, they are about 4 1/2 meters long, 2/3 meter wide and have very short stubby arms, their stride is about 2000 km, and they can get there in about 3 hours. They have big funny noses we can see you through, and on the side of the noses they will probably say things like "Khameini", "Rafsanjani", "Galactic Twerp", "12th Mahdi", you know endearing personal messages.

Have a nice day

hamna

IRAN MUST ATTACK AMERICA

Theway2k

Alexandra von Maltzan has put together an excellent blogosphere indictment on Iran. If Iran was an individual he would be in jail awaiting trial. Iran is an Islamofascist rogue nation with 12th Imam delusions of grandeur. Iran needs to be committed for insanity before it deserves the needle for international homicide.

Ghost Dansing

It's so sad America has been so weakened by modern Republicanism, and this Republican administration in general. Everything Dubya has done in the area of foreign policy has played into the hands of Iran...and because he squandered military capability, treasure and blood on Iraq, he is in a poor position to deal with Iran.

This Republican administration's incompetence will haunt us for generations.

slowtrain

As I have said elsewhere on this issue, I am not a fan of Friedrich Nietzsche but there is truth in what he said, “Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” History shows that civilized men often descend into uncivilized behavior when confronted with uncivilized acts that threaten their way of life. I will not give examples because I don’t want to risk distracting from the real issue. The point I seek to make is that military strike of whatever sort may very well turn out to be the only option, yet we must not be perceived by the general Iranian public and the world as arriving at that decision casually or without regards to the lives of millions of ordinary Iranians.

I don’t believe that we are at the point where war is the only option and I don’t believe that majority of the 70 million Iranians would be willing to face a nuclear strike that might hit the wrong target, just to possess a few nuclear weapons. I believe that we have not seriously tried to communicate to the general Iranian public the fact that their incredibly stupid, perhaps maniacal President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his stupid cohorts are prepared to sacrifice their lives and those of their children for some deranged notion of him being ordained by some phantom to lead them and all Muslims into victory over the West and that possession of nuclear weapon is the way to do it. So far, the general Iranian public, left to only the brainwashing of their leadership and the inadvertent complicity of the America media, is on the verge of being convinced that America will attack them with nuclear weapon regardless of what they do and that the only deterrent and hope is to acquire nuclear weapon themselves.

The situation is quickly turning into Catch-22 and it is not only the making of Ahmadinejad, but also the way America and the West have responded.

MarcH

Dr. VdeV,

Your post provided the rare but entertaining spectacle of an admirer of the Bathists depicting himself as concerned with the welfare of "US marines and Israeli civilians".

You must play a mean game of Twister (http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~sillke/Twister/).

MarcH


Jeff Durkin,

I think that the key is whether 'Tehran may ... gamble that the US, having "solved the Iran problem" will turn its attention elsewhere, particularly after 2008, and allow Tehran to repair the damage done and resume work on nukes'.

McInerney assumes that the American people do have the will to support a large scale air campaign with a long term engagement (but not conventional ground forces).

McInerney seems to call for not just hitting WMD related sites, but also crippling the regime's security apparatus. The implication is that the US will be able to leverage the drop in regime security capability by aiding various political/ethnic opponents to effect regime change. If this succeeds it is possible that some future Iranian regime may resume work on nukes, but any new political establishment in Iran would have to be more sane and pacific than the current one.

IMHO, if we don't have the will to act now (in 1936 when Ahmadinejad is just reoccupying the Rhineland) how can we realistically expect that we'll have the will to contain and slowly pressure him to give up the WMD? It didn't work with N. Korea and it almost didn't work with Iraq. I'm betting that, in the choice between bad and worse, the American people will have the guts to pick bad rather than just chill out and wait for worse.

On a side note, please don't take the above as me painting you as advocating throwing in the towel. I appreciated that you choose to play Devil's advocate in your comments and thought that they added clarity to the various options.

Dr Victorino de la Vega

Dear Slavonic-American beauty,

My “answer” would be to get rid of both the Ahmad-i-Nejad AND the Bush regime simultaneously if possible…for I think the latter is actually more dangerous both in terms of nuclear lethality and religious zealotry!

Three years after the conquest of Baghdad, the situation throughout the Middle-East looks rather bleak, as Iran goes nuclear following the example of its US-armed neighbors Israel and Pakistan, while radical Islamic fundamentalism seems stronger than ever with heinous mobs burning churches (not to mention Christians and women) in Cairo, Jakarta and Islamabad, and with potentially explosive Sunni vs. Shiite sectarian tensions now spreading to Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan and the entire Gulf region.

I guess that’s what Neocon Neros such as Mike Ledeen call “creative chaos” whatever that means... “Chaotic cretinism” would be a more fitting appellation for the highly incoherent foreign policy of President Bush and his incompetent Neocon handlers!

Narrow-minded Marxist ideologues be they communists or “neo-conservatives” have always despised the “internal contradictions” of traditional Western rationality (rooted in Europe´s Christian and secular Classical traditions) which they believe to be “old-fashioned” and “formal” (sic). Just like their role model comrade Lenin, these sophisticated thugs prefer the joys “dialectical creativity” even when this means pursuing high policies over the dead bodies of hundreds of thousands of disposable Arab and Muslim peasants… as another Neocon Israeli idol once said: “you simply can’t cook a good omelet without cracking a few eggs”!

But, to use their own vocab of choice, the Neocons themselves are now faced with the “internal contradictions” of their misguided Mideast policy based on a blind belief in accelerated democratization at gunpoint coupled with a systematic scorn of Arab and Islamic public opinion…

Like him or not, Saddam Hussein was a truly modernist, Westernized Arab head of state who protected women’s rights and enforced affirmative action programs in favor of Iraq’s tiny Christian minority. President Reagan and “Old Europe’s” foreign policy establishment both viewed the Iraqi Baath party essentially as a strong secular bulwark against both Persian-Khomeinist fundamentalism and Wahhabi-Afghan terrorism.

The Israelis and Washington’s Neocons thought otherwise: now US marines and Israeli civilians have to deal with the rise of terrorist organizations such as Hamas and the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) which their own governments have deliberately brought to power…

Jeff Durkin

As I was riding home on the Metro, I had a few more thoughts on possible outcomes of military action against Iran. In my last comments I presented two possible paths.

One, in which I laid all the carnage that could be caused if Iran decides to resist or overtly prolong a conflict, including the use of chemical and biological weapons (which I would call the "messy short-term, victorious long-term" scenario) and then General McInerney's idea of a short, hard hitting campaign followed up with regime change (the "clean short-term, victorious long-term" scenario).

However, as I was riding home, I started to think about what Tehran might do, if they wanted to take maximum advantage of a US strike, while minimizing the potential for regime change.

Two caveats; this scenario is pretty much impossible if we decide to fight a long air/SpecFor campaign, with regime and security targets as primary "aim points." And, it assumes that the regime is, from our point of view, partially rational. In this case, it would mean they believe in the long-term victory of Islam and Iran, but are not looking for an apocalyptic confrontation now. In short, they are more interested in preserving the Islamic Republic than all becoming martyrs.

Let's say we have an "Osirek on steroids" attack. We hit every known nuclear target with assets we either have in the region, can get their quickly or can stage from the US - so, mainly carrier based air, cruise missiles and long-range bombers. It can be almost guaranteed that we will not destroy Iran's nuclear infrastructure, only damage it to some degree. How much? Well, it depends on a lot of things. How good is our intel? When do we hit (if we hit "off hours" there is less blowback from civilian casualties, but more human resources survive)? Do we hit nuclear sites near population centers and risk radiation deaths? Do have any major SNAFUs (an aerial "Desert One") that leaves targets only partially damaged? This seems unlikely, but warfare often sees the unlikely happen.

You get the idea.

It is possible that Tehran may decide to retaliate in safe ways: increase support for attacks on Israel; increase support for terrorism in Iraq, something we have demonstrated will not result in retaliation; increase support for quasi-legitimate groups in Iraq that our hostile to our interests; increase support for terrorist groups in Europe, to show the Europeans the price of being friends of the US, while not directly hitting the US homeland, avoiding public support for a regime changing war; increase ties to places like China and Venezuela, which to some degree hostile to the US; use the attack to solidify support at home, by riding the almost inevitable nationalist surge an attack would bring, coupled with a crackdown on anti-regime elements - who will be written off as Zionists, spies, etc; use the attack, and the regime survival, as a rallying point for supporters in the region; and, finally, gamble that the US, having "solved the Iran problem" will turn its attention elsewhere, particularly after 2008, and allow Tehran to repair the damage done and resume work on nukes.

And, then, in 2012 or so, we have a Tehran with allies in Latin America, weapons from Beijing, and a small covert nuke program, that has managed to inflict casualties on Israel and the West, and might even have partial control of the Iraqi government, all while America - the short-attention span nation - assumes it has "won."

Call this the "clean short-term, defeated long-term" scenario.

The basic point is, if Iran does not play our game - which is to either launch a full-scale, overt counter-offensive or capitulate - than any war short of either regime change or failed status, could lead to our overall defeat.

Anyway, off to dinner.

MarcH

1. I would say that Drs. Alexandra and Igout have the correct diagnosis. But we don't need Moscow, Peiking or Old Europe getting in the way during the procedure. Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney (USAF, ret.) describes the only scalpels we'll need for this operation in "Target: Iran - Yes, there is a feasible military option against the mullahs' nuclear program". (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/101dorxa.asp).

2. This was a great post Alexandra. My only complaint is that you didn’t mention the part about the 12th Imam living deep down in the Jamkaran well (that’s “well”, as in a deep hole in the ground where primitive peoples go to fetch water, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamkaran) for the last one thousand years, awaiting his turn in the spotlight. I seem to remember a news story which described Ahmadinejad and his mullah pals going off to the well for a little pow-wow with the Imam. Such accounts make Ahmadinejad seem so … well … normal. I think he’d fit right in at the faculty lounge of any major university.

Jeff Durkin

We only have four broad options to follow.
1. We decide to live with a nuclear Iran.
2. We continue to pursue the current diplomatic model, which is offer carrots and continue to talk, even when Tehran makes it abundantly clear that they are not interested in anything we (the US/EU-3) have to offer.
3. Implement sanctions, including an economic blockade.
4. Military strikes of some sort.

The first option is, of course, unacceptable. A nuclear Iran would be, at best, a threat to US regional security interests. It is quite possible that Iran, with a nuclear arsenal, could follow an apocalyptic path and try to destroy Israel and Sunni population centers, not to mention as many Western population centers as it had the ability to hit. At a minimum, this would lead to widespread destruction in the Middle East and a serious global economic downturn (not to mention tens of millions of dead in all but the smallest nuclear war).

The second option, while possible (after all, we have been talking for years) is pointless. Tehran has made it clear that there is nothing that we can realistically offer them that will get them to back off from their nuclear weapons program.

The third option, while it could have a very positive effect, is unrealistic, simply because Iran's major trading partners will not cooperate. So, unless we want to get into the business of sinking oil tankers heading to China, effective sanctions cannot be implemented.

So, that leaves a military strike of some sort as the only option left. Since the options that are likely involve the use of large, overt forces, this action will cause severe problems in the region and will lead, at a minimum, to an increase in terrorism in the Middle East, Europe and the US, as well as strikes against US personnel and interests in the region. It could also lead to chemical weapon attacks on Iraqi population centers (Iran has a large chemical arsenal and the means to deliver them), biowar attacks in the US (Iran also has a biological weapons program and is the most likely WMD attack against the US in the near-term from Iran), a collapse of a country with 70 million people and resources that are critical to global economic health, a chronic failed state, a huge refugee issue (if the attacks on the nuclear program infrastructure cause radioactive contamination near population centers and the central government collapses), and, if our intel is wrong - or the Iranians just don't give up - the prospect of a long air campaign, one that would see the US under increasing international pressure to end as the global economic impact became more pronounced. Admittedly, some of these are worse case and others are contradictory. But, they are all reasonable possible outcomes of a war with Iran. And there are others. The point is, a military action will almost certainly cause serious repercussions, both at home and abroad.

That said, we really don't have any other choice. Diplomacy will not work and sanctions cannot be implemented. Allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons will only make matters worse - unless we are willing to suffer a major blow to our national security. So, it looks like we will be going to war; the questions are what kind of war (unconventional, conventional-air, conventional-ground, long, short, and so forth) and how much damage are we will to put up with to achieve victory (the loss of more servicemen, chemical attacks on Iraq, a terror campaign in Europe, widespread terrorism at home, a global recession, etc.)? While we can hope that Genenral McInerney's rather rosy assessment is right (and massive attack that cripples Iranian nuclear and security forces, followed by an anti-government uprising), if I were making policy, I would not want to count on it, particularly the uprising part. I, of course, do not dispute our ability to win a military conflict with Iran. Rather, I wonder if Americans would put up with another long war or one that saw the use of WMD - chemical and biological - or new terrorist attacks in the US or only pushed back the date for nuclear Iran by "five years," necessitating another campaign in the near future?

Anyway, just some thoughts.

T.J.

Alexandra: Tremendous post. Islam is unreformable but I hope you will agree that, as a Christian, Bush had to try. I am so pleased you linked to the riveting Simmons essay. I loved Hyperion and this essay was the most interesting thing I've read all month, besides the Steyn article in City Journal (and your posts, natch.) I must ask you, what does your imagination tell you regarding the "three last words" spoken by the Time Traveler?

Peace means submission. ???

You've been warned. ??? (mind you, that's four words, technically speaking)

Miss that Scotch. ??? (because it no longer exists in 2019?)

Intelligent, insightful theo-conservatives like Redfining Sovereignty editor Orrin Judd don't agree with the Simmons/Steyn viewpoint and even seem to welcome the idea of Islamic influence under the rubric of the U.S. Constitution. I personally believe that Islam does not, cannot, and never shall recognize the U.S. Constitution. Or the U.S., except as a land and people to eventually be made to submit.

That Simmons voted for Kerry and nevertheless wrote this essay is a hopeful sign.

Peace, Alexandra (sans submission)

gringoman

Billmon,

Relax, whenever Alexandra dares to stick up for Western Civilization and those who made it and defended it, there will always be a pale comrade to play the untermenschen card in behalf of the barbarians and their hordes who are often even more ignorant and malleable than the West's fat masses of entitlement. (Call it Hitler's gift to Stalin.) He needs to apologize for his paleness. He wants to say, "I can't help it, I know the very sight of me oppresses you poor people, but look, at least in me it's progressive. See? It's all about being sensitive. You dig?"

Posted by: gringoman at Apr 17, 2006 7:06:30 PM

slowtrain

Alexandra,

As your March 09, 2006 post:
Iran Is Building A Nuclear Weapon
and my comments thereto clearly show, we were ahead of time on this issue. Excerpts from that comment read, “In the apparent nuclear impasse with Iran and the attendant imminent confrontation, two things need to be considered. One, what can history tell us? Two, “how bad does Iran want or need” the nuclear bomb? A careful consideration of these two questions clearly indicates that Iran is determined on acquiring nuclear weapons and Iran will acquire nuclear weapons. The question is what is the rest of the world going to do about it? In the case of what we can learn from history, Pakistan and India come to mind. In the case of the latter question, the leadership of Iran that sees itself and Iran as the ideological leader of the Islamic world, which it believes has been bullied and humiliated by the West, particularly the United States, is bent on acquiring nuclear weapons; primarily as both a deterrent and instrument of intimidation or blackmail.

On a more sinister level, there is Iran’s desire to destroy Israel; a desire that was recently, clearly and unequivocally declared to the world by none other than the Iranian President himself. Of course, there is also the desire to punish the United States, expectedly not to the same magnitude as it hopes to inflict punishment on Israel, but nevertheless, to weaken the United States, by crippling its economy, thus making America less influential, particularly in the Middle East, and less of an obstacle to Iran and its agenda in the world.”

As I have written elsewhere, the success of Iran’s meddling in Iraq that has hitherto created the intractable situation therein, and Iran’s presumption of lack of will borne out of weariness, among a significant number of Americans and Europeans has emboldened it. Also, the 1973 oil crisis in the United States that resulted from the Arab Oil Embargo on America and the fact there are now alternative markets, particularly China and India, for Middle East oil gives Iran’s leadership a pretty good gauge on the potency of oil as a weapon against the United States, even more than there had been in 1973. Speaking of this power, Bob Dylan, a man I consider ahead of his time said,

“All that foreign oil controlling American soil,
Look around you, it's just bound to make you embarrassed.
Sheiks walkin' around like kings, wearing fancy jewels and nose rings,
Deciding America's future from Amsterdam and to Paris
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.”

One cannot help but wonder; has that proverbial slow train that Dylan spoke of, about to clear the bend. America and the Western World must realize the gravity of their position here, as Iran appears to hold and expand advantage at every turn.

“How do you fight a mad man? There is an inherent problem of, “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. The suicide bomber, a product of the same ideology as the Iranian leaders (the mullahs), ought to be a point of reference and a harbinger of what is to come. Win or lose, the madman has less to gain and less to lose, perhaps even nothing in either case. On the other hand, you have more to lose. So what ought to be done and what must we do, in a troubled world and a volatile Middle East, when Iran possesses WMD? That ought to be the question. Not the hand wringing and empty threats, which Iran has considered and accepted as necessary price for acquiring WMD, especially since it has Pakistan and India as models.”

Make no mistake about it, Iran, which sees this issue as intrinsically part of a wider ideological struggle for dominance, will do all it can to draw the entire Muslim world into any confrontation that might ensue with the United States, which is left without its traditional European allies, who are practically immobilized by fear and narrow minded self-interest. I know I will be vilified for saying this, but it has to be said.

Right now Iran is two steps ahead of the United States and the Western world, in this high stakes ‘game of chess’….” Clearly and urgently, America and the Western World need someone or something that can diffuse, not explode this ticking time bomb, one way or another.

Joe

I wonder what bullshit the liberal Blogosphere will come up with to refute their own incompetent reporting

But of course it will be the all-purpose excuse "BushLied!!", followed immediately by the squeaking of all those new-and-improved wheeled goalposts being moved yet again.

gringoman

Re the cartoon (in gringo color), 'Nanny Man Goes to Tehran,' somehow I get the impression that Alexandra has little faith in Nanny Man.

igout

A nukectomy won't do it, we need a total mullahectomy. Since this is in many people's interest, including that of the people of Iran, it'd be good if New Delhi, Moscow and Bejing were made part of the surgical team.


History didn't end, it was just on pause.

epaminondas

Look, there is as little to discuss right now between the USA nd Iran as there is between HAMAS and Israel.
They will not stop, we can not allow it.

DO
WHATEVER
IT
TAKES

BTW, if anyone around here hasn't read Dan Simmons little short story about all this...Sometimes it takes a science fiction writer to generate an accurate conviction of future history
it's HERE:

http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message.htm

"The Time Traveler appeared suddenly in my study on New Year’s Eve, 2004. He was a stolid, grizzled man in a gray tunic and looked to be in his late-sixties or older. He also appeared to be the veteran of wars or of some terrible accident since he had livid scars on his face and neck and hands, some even visible in his scalp beneath a fuzz of gray hair cropped short in a military cut. One eye was covered by a black eyepatch. Before I could finish dialing 911 he announced in a husky voice that he was a Time Traveler come back to talk to me about the future."

RL

Ciao bella, it's Taheri (& not Teheri). i just thought that it would be nice to point this out to the creator of my favourite blog that is produced by a creative and thoughtful lady. You possibly had Tehran on your very intelligent mind.


Marc Schulman

I just followed your link to Billmon. He seems to have overlooked the fact that Germany lost WWI. Using his logic (?), I could argue that the reason for Hitler's success was Kaiser Wilhelm -- after all, he started the war. On second thought, maybe the real culprit was Bismarck -- if he hadn't unified Germany, there wouldn't have been a Kaiser, and if there hadn't been a Kaiser, there wouldn't have been a war, and if there hadn't been a war, there wouldn't have been a Hitler. You get the idea. Historical reductionism, pure and simple.

Applying Billmon's logic (?) to the U.S., the blame for post-WWII "imperial" America rests squarely on the shoulders of Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire. After all, if they had defeated the U.S., the U.S. wouldn't have become an imperial state. The same goes for the Soviets: if they had won the Cold War, we wouldn't have been able to invade Iraq or threaten Iran.

billmon

Oh yes, whip me again, my blonde Aryan slave mistress. I just LOVE it when you compare the Islamic untermenchen to vile rodents. It's so . . . purifying!

Huan

The government needs to start laying the military ground work for war with Iran in 2007 and the nation as a whole in 2008.

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