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Wednesday, May 10, 2006

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» Not On The Taheri Bandwagon On This from Unwilling Self-Negation
Amir Taheri is a pretty sharp tool. An articulate and well spoken Iranian dissident. All Things Beautiful reports about his analysis as to Ahmedinajad's letter to Bush. Frankly, this is one of Taheri's worst analyses. Bullet point time. The letter w... [Read More]

» Ahmadinejad's Threatening Letter from Liberty and Justice
The question which needs to be answered is what the purpose of Ahmadinejad's letter really is. One could argue that, as some do as I have already pointed out, that it is merely his intention to shift from the defense to the offense. I must say I do not... [Read More]

Comments

Allison

"It is s damn shame that there are American citizens more willing, able and eager to believe the words and intentions of a Hitler-esque religious fanatic than the President. "

It doesn't take comments from Ahmedinejad's letter to see lies, corruption and hypocisy (or "bending the truth," if you prefer); it only takes one's eyes and ears. You seem to think that just because Ahmedinejad is bad, Bush must be good or better (to simplify matters). But I think Bush's record speaks otherwise. A truth, no matter WHO states it, is still a truth.

"Ann Coulter said it best a while ago - we finally give the liberals a war against religious fundamentalism and they don't want to fight it (presumably because it isn't the right "religion" to focus on - aka, not Christianity or Judaism)."

When was this war ever about "fighting religious fundamentalism?" I thought it was about "weapons of mass destruction." I guess the purpose shifts according to whatever's convenient to the president and his allies (i.e., once one lie is exposed, let's move to another, then flip-flop all over the place until people are so confused they forget they're being lied to left and right). Oops, did I just say flip-flop???

slowtrain

Nasty90 and Good Lt:

Your responses are typical of this pagan inspired postmodernist age: blame it all on Christians. After all, it is only customary and very convenient to do so. In pagan Roman Empire, centuries ago, Christians were blamed for everything, from pestilence to famine, from earthquakes to floods. When Mt. Vesuvius erupted in A.D. 79 and destroyed the ancient city of Pompeii, the Christians were blamed for it, when there was famine, epidemics and other natural calamities, Christians were blamed for them too, Islamic terrorist blow up trains in Madrid and London, who gets blamed for it, Christians and Jews of course; “if America and Britain, manipulated by Jews, supported by Spain, hadn’t invaded Iraq, those incidents would not have happened”, right? Or how about if only United States would stop supporting Israel, the Islamic terrorists would leave us alone? I have no doubt that you and the pagan “priestess” would feed Christians to the beasts all over again and delight in seeing them turn to bits and devoured, just to be rid of them.

George Bush is the President of the United States, he was not elected by Christians alone or because he is a Christian. If he errs, fails, succeeds or leads the nation to victory in his decisions as the President of the United States of America, he did so as a leader, not necessarily as a Christian. When people elect someone to do a difficult job, they should at least have the courage and decency to stand by whom they have chosen when the going gets tough, instead of idly standing by, wringing their hands, winning and blaming him for the same difficult problems he is trying to solve and for which he was elected. Your responses are not surprising, that’s how it is in a culture where the tendency is to blame someone else, and never take responsibility. Everyone seems to forget that what America is doing in Iraq is not fighting a war, but building a nation. If it had been strictly war, the troops would have been home long time ago. I bet it has never occurred to you that if Bush did not care about the future of Iraq and Iraqis he would have brought the soldiers home soon after the actual war was over.

The author of the book Tribalizing America, sums it up this way, “America is like an oasis in a desert or like a beacon at sea that inspires hope and freedom in the hearts of people all over the world. Whether it is in the legacies of the pilgrims and countless immigrants seeking freedom from oppressive homelands; the founding fathers fighting for freedom from oppressive colonial masters; the African slaves struggling for freedom from their oppressors; women and minorities seeking justice and equality; the liberation of the French and the Italians on the D-Day; burying the hatchet and being magnanimous to defeated foes, such as Germany, Japan, and the Soviet Union—in embrace of new beginnings, restoration, friendship and support in building better societies.

In all these American experiences, there is an element of “the good, the bad, and the ugly”. But America has never been timid in confronting any issue that undermines her true ideals, at home or abroad, and reinventing herself and reshaping the world when those issues so warrant. This in itself has been an inspiration to the rest of the world.”

George Bush believes what he believes and is the man he is, just like you believe what you believe and are who you are, such is life; that’s just the way it is. We all have convictions and we all act from those convictions for what we believe is right, whether we are right or wrong, time shall tell. In the eyes of skepticism, words become redundant, only time shall tell.

Michael Galien

Slowtrain said...

It is perhaps more appropriate to say that Islamic countries have the tendency to back one another up, no matter what.

I stand corrected; you are right.

Good Lt

It is s damn shame that there are American citizens more willing, able and eager to believe the words and intentions of a Hitler-esque religious fanatic than the President.

Ann Coulter said it best a while ago - we finally give the liberals a war against religious fundamentalism and they don't want to fight it (presumably because it isn't the right "religion" to focus on - aka, not Christianity or Judaism).

Nasty90

Slowtrain, that business about Mohammed doing what he did to unite the warring arab tribes is poppycock. He was a warlord with his own selfish ambition. Forcing other arabs in that day wasn't that hard when they annhilated and assasinated anyone who made fun of Mohammed who claimed to be a prophet. Those who rejected his claims as a prophet were put to death.

Ghost Dansing

Well, I for one think Ahmadinejad is far worse than dubya in every way...he's (Ahmadinejad) kinda like what the American President would look like if the "christian" fundamentalist, evangelical dominionists took over here.

Ahmadinejad is a "twelver"...he is fascinated with the "end days" just like the apolcolyptic "christians" in this Country.

Unfortunately, due to some really bad choices and general incompetence, dubya has put the United States in a very weak position from which to deal with Iran's nuclear issue.

slowtrain

As we all know Arab countries have a tendency of backing eachother up (except of course when they are the ones being attacked) almost no matter what.

It is perhaps more appropriate to say that Islamic countries have the tendency to back one another up, no matter what. Arab countries have never really liked one another and that has been the case even before Mohammed the founder of Islam. In fact, at Mohammed’s time, Arabia was bitterly divided by warring tribes. Mohammed’s tribe Quarish, established itself in the south, near the place called Mecca, the principal religious and commercial centre of Arabia at the time. Mohammed’s main goal was really to put end to the tribal wars, by unifying the disparate warring tribes, which culminated in the conquest of all of Arabia and the imposition of the Islamic religion via his so-called religious reform and ultimately inspired the Islamic expansion throughout the world.

As we know Iran is not an Arab country but Persian and Iraq, which until it was conquered by invading Muslim armies and more recently through an Arab, Saddam Hussein’s effort to “Arabize” Iraq by his “Arabfication” (ethnic cleansing) program. Iraq had always been predominantly Assyrian and Babylonian country.

The Persians (Iranians), Babylonians/Assyrians (Iraqis), and the Midianites, etc., (Arabs) have been mortal enemies for centuries. Islam has been the only thing that tend to unit them all, but even at that they are still mortal enemies — the Sunni Muslims (mostly Arabs) hate the Shiite Muslims (mostly Persians), as we see in their current battle ground: Iraq. The Shiites were brutally oppressed by Saddam Hussein (an Arab), now the Sunnis (mainly Arabs) fearing retaliation in a Shiite ruled Iraq, expect that the same fate awaits them, hence the insurgency which is mostly lead by Arabs (Osama, Zarkawi, etc.)

Arabs like to rule; in Iraq they are the Sunni, in Nigeria, Sudan, Chad, Niger, etc. they are the Fulani. They believe that Allah has mandated them to rule the world. Islam is only the means to exercise this mandate; it is really indirect Arab rule, hence the goal to dominate the world through Islam. The Persians, who once ruled the region in ancient times, believe they should continue to do so, also through Islam, hence the Sunni - Shiite divide.

Allison

"I am quite European in my view about religion and politics. I firmly believe in a seperation of church and state. That should let you know how I think about certain aspects of Bush's propaganda."

Ditto :) I'm not religious at all, by the way. I think most people do agree, however, that it is blatantly un-Christian to lie, cheat and steal. And that is where I think the hypocrisy element of this administration comes in. If you're going to make religion a big chunk of your agenda, then you should probably not do things which go most blatantly against that religion when you get into office. You're asking for trouble.

OK, enough procrastination for me :)

Fausta

Don't miss Lileks's take on the letter

Michael Galien

I won't get into that too much, simply because I don't really believe in saying whether someone is a Christian or not. I expect that person him/herself to know best.

I am quite European in my view about religion and politics. I firmly believe in a seperation of church and state. That should let you know how I think about certain aspects of Bush's propaganda.

Allison

Sorry, that should have read: "Bush shot himself in the foot by openly sharing his religion and religious agenda, AND USING IT IN AN EFFORT TO GAIN CREDIBILITY, when he couldn't back it up with Christian actions

Allison

Dick: I personally think it's difficult to see who is the biggest hypocrite, and I'm not alone. Bush shot himself in the foot by openly sharing his religion and religious agenda, when he couldn't back it up with Christian actions :)

Allison

I was speaking on more of a political/governmental level. Most everyday Muslims will say all the right things about loving other Muslims unconditionally, but when it comes down to the people in power standing behind those words with actions (and $), things fizzle. Some examples... Saudis are some of the richest people in the world, and they aren't exactly doing a great job at helping their fellow Muslims in different parts of the world (much less their own needy citizens). Israel's neighbors are famously unwelcoming to Palestinian refugees. Morocco and Algeria can't resolve their border disputes (among other issues). Sunnis and Shias from the same countries continue to interact violently. I would say there is a lot of divisiveness in the Arab world, on several different issues.

Dick Westwood

Well, I thought the funniest part in Mahmoud's epistle to George was this:

"We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets of the Almighty… surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord therefore serves Him…

Allison: a pretty good job of pointing out the hypocrisy of Bush's "religious posturing"? It seems to me that it's the thug-in-chief who's the religious-posturer-in chief.

Michael Galien

What I am talking about is not just governments, but Arabs in general. I don't know who you are talking with, but I also have quite some friends from different Arab countries, and they back every Arab country up, like I said, almost continuesly.
Muslims in general have a tendency to back eachother up. Of course some arabs / muslims think arab countries aren't backing eachother up enough, because enough is for them not 99%, but 100%.

Allison

"As we all know Arab countries have a tendency of backing eachother up (except of course when they are the ones being attacked) almost no matter what.
That Saudi Arabia and Kuwait feel threatened by Iran makes it almost undeniable for everyone that Iran, indeed, is trying to develop WMD's. If SA and Kuwait weren't (99%) sure of it, they would not come out this publicly. "

Arab countries are actually notorious for not backing each other up (at least from what I've studied and learned from my discussions with Arabs- who for the most part seem to think the Middle East would be a better place if Arab countries would learn to back each other up a whole lot more). They especially don't like Iran. On a petty level, Saudi Arabia is mega-PO'd that most of the world says "Persian Gulf" instead of "Arabian Gulf." On a more important level, notice how Arab countries don't even want to help out their fellow Muslims, the Palestinians. There is a lot of bitterness between countries of the Middle East. And of course Arab countries are going to react negatively to anything Iran puts out.

I thought Ahmedinejad did a pretty good job of pointing out a lot of hypocisy on the part of our president and members of the current administration, especially as regards his religious posturing.

Michael Galien

Honestly, except for his closing mumbo-jumbo about everyone getting ready to worship his version of Allah, there isn't the slightest difference between Ahmadinejad's letter and the average speech by Al Gore, Howard Dean or Russ Feingold.

Wow this is a incredibly cheap shot at 'liberals' (lets call the animal by its name: socialists).

s they say, action speak louder than words, and our Thug-In-Chief certainly doesn't upset this wisdom. Will that be taken into account by our Liberal friends?

Probably not. What they most certainly will not acknowledge is the much more revealing reaction to the letter by Ahmadinejad's neighboring countries

Firstly; we'll have to wait and see first, whether or not 'they' will 'acknowledge' that 'reaction'.
Secondly; this reaction from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait is very telling and it is great that they are speaking out against Ahmadinejad. As we all know Arab countries have a tendency of backing eachother up (except of course when they are the ones being attacked) almost no matter what.
That Saudi Arabia and Kuwait feel threatened by Iran makes it almost undeniable for everyone that Iran, indeed, is trying to develop WMD's. If SA and Kuwait weren't (99%) sure of it, they would not come out this publicly.

The Western forces should try to get more allies in the ME (ME is funny enough the shortening for middeleeuwen in Dutch - dark ages), so we can put the pressure even more on Iran.

or engage the Islamic Republic in a mini-version of Cold War until, worn out, it self-destructs.

This is, in my opinion, a very good option, maybe the best.

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