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Monday, May 22, 2006

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» Taheri Press Release from Liberty and Justice
It is extremely difficult to get reliable information out of Iran. The best thing we have is Taheri - he has proven that he has some very reliable and knowledgeable sources. He is seldom wrong. [Read More]

» The History Of Persecution from Liberty and Justice
Prof. Andrew Bostom is one of the most well-known experts regarding the history of Islam. It is of the utmost importance for us to listen to those who have studied the Islam, as to enlarge our own knowledge about it. [Read More]

Comments

Lee

Please read this one and learn Islam.

link

foreign devil

Here is a link to a press release dated May 23, 2006 from Benador Associates and Amir Taheri in which he stands by his statement that Iran has passed a dress code for Iranian Muslims and have also introduced the idea of coloured strips of cloth for different faiths. The strips are called zonnars.

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/19508

"Regarding the dress code story it seems that my column was used as the basis for a number of reports that somehow jumped the gun.

"As far as my article is concerned I stand by it.

"The law has been passed by the Islamic Majlis and will now be submitted to the Council of Guardians. A committee has been appointed to work out the modalities of implementation.

"Many ideas are being discussed with regard to implementation,
including special markers, known as zonnars, for followers of
Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism, the only faiths other than Islam that are recognized as such. The zonnar was in use throughout the Muslim world until the early 20th century and marked out the dhimmis, or protected religious minorities. ( In Iran it was formally abolished in 1908).
I have been informed of the ideas under discussion thanks to my
sources in Tehran, including three members of the Majlis who had tried to block the bill since it was first drafted in 2004.

"I do not know which of these ideas or any will be eventually adopted. We will know once the committee appointed to discuss them presents its report, perhaps in September...."

Michael Galien

Prof. Bostom, thank you for answering my questions.

NxN Whenever apologists are trying to diminish the 'Judenhaß' in the Middle East as confined to fringe extremist groups which are unfortunately often excessively vocal, but are in reality of much lesser significance and much smaller in numbers than we are being led to believe, and when such apologists question state sponsored Antisemitism and indoctrination in schools and daily media, this context helps setting the record straight.

I agree completely. It is important for all of us to know about the historical context of Islamic aggression. It is repeated time and time again everywhere that the problem is not Islam itself, nor the tradition of Islamic countries, nor most Muslims, no, according to what we all hear and read it is a problem of a very small, minority.
Articles like that of Prof. Bostom, remind of us the fact that, for instance, Ahmadinejad's views / opinions / acts, are not in breach with the history of Islam. In fact, he simply carries on the history of Islam / his country.

Pete Blackwell

Alexandra,

I'm right with you on Cole and I've followed the Hitchens-Cole dust-up closely (siding with Hitchens in this case). The issue may all revolve around the way this story was framed by Weblogistan as the Holocaust part deux, especially with Drudge's screaming headline and Andrew Sullivan's prominent post. You may be right about what's to come, but this story set off more alarms than maybe it should have. That said, I find no good in Ahmadinejad's letter, or in anything else he's ever done.

Patrick O'Hannigan

I know you meant "Pax Islamica" ironically, but lest some readers have any doubts, that's the only way such a phrase can be uttered in reference to a culture where "peace" has been decoupled from "freedom" and linked inextricably with "submission."

Alexandra

Pete,

Look this is difficult for me. I greatly respect Taheri, and would certainly rather take his word than that of Juan Cole. It aggravates me when his story is labeled as "debunked", by both sides may I add. It upsets me even more when a world class journalist who was the editor of the largest Iranian newspaper, with a sterling reputation gets smacked around by idiotic bloggers and would be journalists who are asking "and who is Taheri". Excuse me, and you are?

Taheri's sentence no 1) "The law mandates the government to make sure that all Iranians wear "standard Islamic garments" designed to remove ethnic and class distinctions reflected in clothing, and to eliminate "the influence of the infidel" on the way Iranians, especially, the young dress."

We have had that confirmed.

Immediately followed by sentence no 2) "It also envisages [being the operative word] separate dress codes for religious minorities, Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians, who will have to adopt distinct colour schemes to make them identifiable in public."

We know that this has been "envisaged" and discussed. We also know that this is nothing new. It may have even been a part of earlier versions of the law. The code was only abolished in 1908, and historic precedent is very comfortable with this idea dating back as far as Caliph Omar II in 717AD.

Much has been made of the fact that the law makes "no mention" of it. Just because a document "makes no mention" of something does not mean it is not - under a definition of "standard" - "implied."

This is hardly cause for a credibility check of the supposed "secondary motion" (this has been confirmed) that fits the pattern of laws that Iran has already instituted.

The very fact that it is envisaged, discussed and considered is bad enough. These guys are just warming up, so fasten your seat-belts.

I would rather believe Taheri's sources in Iran than the left wing apologists, who are busy looking for "the good in Ahmadinejad's letter" and Islam, and confirmation of Iran's peaceful intentions, rather than recognizing it as a da'wa (an invitation to convert to Islam), a prerequisite for waging war, which it actually is.

Someone told me the other day on a leftie blog that Ahmadinejad did not say that he will annihilate Israel, and that this is a right-wing, pro Jewish conspiracy to sabotage the Farsi translation and to encourage warmongering. And all this with a straight face.

Let me stand with Taheri on this any day of the week, what I see as opposition to his view on this, even on the right, I do not like.

gringoman

Thank you Professor Bostom, Alexandra (and other Culture Warriors) for delivering what the slick Lamestream can't handle--- elementary historical facts. (Remember the "educated" bonehead here who bashed "Alexandra the Nazi" recently (not even sparing her short hair style) for not appreciating the greater tenderness shown to Jews by Islam as opposed to Christendom?) Remember when (most) everyone thought that the astounding special dress code for Jews in Germany was an invention from the Nazi beer hall? (Even the socialists and Communists seemed righteous and honest when promoting such ignorance for their flocks.) Now we learn that there were centuries of precedent. The Hitlerites were not original. They were industrious copy cats, inspired by the gang with Allah on its side (whether or not this Allah is really, as they claim, the same as the Biblical Jehovah, or is in fact a theological make-over of the old Arabian moon god.) Who knew?

Pete Blackwell

I see you link to my post as an example of the "constant criticism" of Taheri coming from the left. In fairness, this piece was written before he made his statement standing by his story. That said, the National Post retracted the story, which tells you something. We'll see if it pans out in the end.

In my post I had two main points:

1) We should always be at least a little wary of reporting done by an interested party. That's nothing against Taheri, it's just an obvious fact. In this case, there were no "independent" sources for this information. That doesn't mean the story is false (although I assumed it was shown to have been—a point where I may be wrong), it just means it isn't sufficiently sourced to appear in a newspaper.

2) If the story was in fact false, it does a disservice to the cause. The truth about Iran's government is bad enough.

North by Northwest

Professor Bostom,

Israel as the "collective Jew" is ANATHEMA to the entire Islamic umma (again, both Sunni and Shi'ite) because it represents the liberation of a dhimmi people [...] who have reclaimed a "fay" territory.

This reminds me of Charles Moore's heads-up:
"All I want to ask my fellow Europeans is this: are you happy to help direct the world's fury at the only country in the Middle East whose civilization even remotely resembles yours? And are you sure that the fate of Israel has no bearing on your own? In Iran, the new President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad makes the link. The battle over Palestine, he says, is "the prelude of the battle of Islam with the world of arrogance", the world of the West. He is busy building his country's nuclear bomb."

Our valued Guest, a Professor of Islamic Medieval History, had this to add: "I'd very much like to take up one of your points (Israel being seen as an outlier of the West) because I think you and your readers couldn't realize just how true this is; all the Muslim writers, Jihadists, apocalypticists, etc. make this quite clear.

Since the Muslim world believes that the Russian Czarist forgery "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is an authentic historical document (a national museum in Egypt exhibits this work alongside the Talmud as a primary Jewish text!), they see America as the foremost "Zionist entity," completely dominated by sinister Jewish conspiratorialists, and the real source of power of "World Jewry." I highly recommend Professor David Cook's book "Contemporary Muslim Apocalyptic Literature," (Syracuse University Press, 2005) since he reads and quotes from the Muslim fever swamps."

Whenever apologists are trying to diminish the 'Judenhaß' in the Middle East as confined to fringe extremist groups which are unfortunately often excessively vocal, but are in reality of much lesser significance and much smaller in numbers than we are being led to believe, and when such apologists question state sponsored Antisemitism and indoctrination in schools and daily media, this context helps setting the record straight.

Jeremayakovka

Dr. Bostom (and everyone),
First, it's a shot in the arm hearing from you directly. Thanks! It's been empowering to read your articles and watch clips of you recently (I'll get around to your book before too long), this is extra special.
Short point: Your mention of slavery brings to mind a talking point David Horowitz has made, that what was unique about abolition movements in Western democracies was that they were saying not "Let my people go," but "Let other people go," and that that was a unique quality of Western civilization.
Thanks so much for all the provocative information.

-JMK

Andrew Bostom

Michael,

For more specific details on Persia/Iran see my 2004 FrontPage article as well as my book website which has articles that may elaborate.

But in summary, NO I would argue that if anything the Zoroastrians suffered MORE than the Jews under Shi'ite rule in Iran...They are almost EXTINCT now in their indigenous homeland...Persecution ebbs and flows depending on the ability of Muslim rulers to either restrain the ulema (Shi'ite or Sunni) or, more ominously, to join in and exhort them on...

But the doctrines are themselves palpably bigoted and thus far unreformed and unrepentant in any serious way...After all there was NEVER a slavery abolition in Islam (Islamic societies collectively being the greatest enslavers in human history---in fact slavery is still practice !!), just as there was never an Islamic movement to abrogate the laws of dhimmitude.

Both the abolition (incompletely and imperfectly as history reveals!!) of slavery and the end of dhimmitude required outside, i.e., Western or Russian or Soviet "infidel" powers to intervene

Sunni Afghan in Iran rule saw some rather brutal deportations of the Armenian population, and all the dhimmi populations were of course at risk for being caught up in the internecine violence between Muslims..My point was that it seems there was a respite from najis regulations as the Shi'a were out of power

Getting back to "The JOOZ"---Israel as the "collective Jew" is ANATHEMA to the entire Islamic umma (again, both Sunni and Shi'ite) because it represents the liberation of a dhimmi people (a particularly disparaged and formerly "weak" and "meek" people) who have reclaimed a "fay" territory (or even part of that territory), ie., fay meaning taken by jihad and considered permanently to be part of the Dar al Islam, i.e., historical Palestine (Judea, Samaria, Gaza, Israel within the 1949 armistice borders, and Jordan).

What a DANGEROUS precedent this is for ALL the pre-Islamic peoples in the Near East who might also seek their autonomy---Maronites, Copts, even pre-Islamic Berbers (who were Animists prior to being converted to Islam during their subjugation)---and so CLOSE to the spiritual homeland of Muslims, i.e., Arabia

Jeremayakovka

Michael (and everyone):

In short, do not lead with "Hitler" or "Nazi" when trying to convey the Islamic and/or Persian threat.

Thinking aloud here: according to Islam, Hitler was an infidel, was he not? And his Reich, had it prevailed in Europe, would eventually have pressed up against the "bloody borders" (borrowing Huntington's phrase) of "Dar al-Islam". So I speculate whether the ayatollahs of the 1930s and 40s were saying amongst themselves, "That Hitler, he's a son of a bitch, but at least he's our son of a bitch." You know, in the way many in the West have spoken of "strong men" like Saddam and Arafat when it served our short-term and/or misguided purposes of having them in power. In short summary, we all need to dig deeper into actual facts and facets of the subject, like Bostom has done.

best,
JMK

ps - My thoughts here are being occasioned in part by Sharansky's very (perhaps too) modestly presented The Case for Democracy: his confidence "in free societies", etc. In any case, some days I feel like a candle.

Michael Galien

Alexandra; this is a great article from Prof. Bostom. It is incredibly important that experts like him, join the debate about Islam in general and Iran more specifically.

There are some questions I have and hope someone here is able to answer them.
Let me start by saying that I too, have come to the realization that the essence of Islam is, quite simply, the opposite of what we, as Westerners believe.

The questions:
- An ethos of infidel-hatred, including paroxysms of annihilationist fanaticism, has pervaded Persian/Iranian society, almost without interruption - Is this incredible Jew hating a typical shi'a conviction?
What I mean to say is: did Iran (Persia) always play a leading role in persecuting Jews (and Christians), or are they something like the 'first among equals', is this history of Persia / Iran regarding to the treatment of Jews, comparable to the history of that treatment in other Arab, or Muslim, countries?

The reason for this question is that Mr. Boston wrote that one of the two major exceptions being Sunni Afghan rule. This makes me wonder: could it be true that although the Qu'ran speaks out quite clearly about (the treatment of) 'infidels', some 'sects' or 'tribes' have a history of, indeed actively persecuting those infidels, while other sects / tribes traditionally adhere less to those Islamic rules / laws?

And if so, why?

Furthermore: I understand the reasons why Mr. Bostom does not agree with connecting the current Iranian regime with that of the Nazis, since, among other things, the history of Shi'a persecuting Jews is incredibly much older. But - to make people understand something they don't know anything about, I have found it to be quite useful to compare that particular topic they don't know anything about to something they do know (something about).
One of the most important things that need to change is the common attitude in the Western world that exists out of... ignoring this Islamic / Iranian problem. Wouldn't you agree that, by comparing the current Iranian regime to that of the Nazis it makes it more easy to digest (to accept) for most Westerners?
One could argue that, after they accepted that comparison and thus the importance of the problem, one could broaden the debate by emphasizing the historical Persian / Shi'a convictions.

sigmund, carl and alfred

Bostom is a laser guided pile driver.

In fact, while there will those might disagree with some parts of his analysis, that is no more than disagreeing about the parameters of a particular orbit of a heavenly body.

The fact remains that the the body is in orbit and remains a part of the reality of a particular solar system- and pretending it isn't there or hoping the planet in question will go away, is absurd.

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