The Devil's Arithmetic Part II

 

BREAKING: Israel sends ground forces into Lebanon.

Having written probably the longest post in the history of ATB with The Devil's Arithmetic over the weekend, I felt I owed my readers a certain respite...like a shorter Part II...lol

It's good to be reminded again 'Why They Fight': "Why? Because occupation was a mere excuse to persuade gullible and historically ignorant Westerners to support the Arab cause against Israel. The issue is, and has always been, Israel's existence. That is what is at stake."

It was Yasser Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization that convinced the world that the issue was occupation. Yet, through all those years of pretense, Arafat's own group celebrated its annual Fatah Day on the anniversary of its first attack on Israel, the bombing of Israel's National Water Carrier -- on Jan. 1, 1965.

Note: 1965. Two years before the 1967 war. Two years before Gaza and the West Bank fell into Israeli hands. Two years before there were any "occupied territories." [...]

In 1967 Israel acquired the "occupied territories." In 1948 Israel acquired life. The fighting raging now in 2006 -- between Israel and the "genocidal Islamism" (to quote the writer Yossi Klein Halevi) of Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran behind them -- is about whether that life should and will continue to exist.

You'd think that there isn't a sane person around who disputes these basic facts.

Ah, you'd be wrong (h/t Michael van der Galien).... and be tempted to join the glorious ranks of Hezbollah after reading this.

What relief then, when for a change the fingers are pointed at the real culprits:

Western Europeans lament the fact that the Bush administration, its energies sapped by the Iraq war, has not shown much appetite for the shuttle diplomacy that brokered the last Israel-Hezbollah cease-fire in 1996. But if France and others had not undermined sanctions on Iraq in the late 1990s, the case for the military alternative would have been weaker -- and the war might not have happened.

Even today, many of these freeloaders see mayhem in Iraq as America's problem. You'd think that chaos in a major oil exporter, with the potential to seed extremism all over the Middle East, would alarm all responsible governments. But the freeloaders think it's a joke. Pressed over the weekend about democracy in Russia, Vladimir Putin quipped that he didn't want a democracy like Iraq's.

How encouragingly unusual to hear the WaPo cut through the chase:

In all the diplomacy, the false lure of "evenhandedness" must not be allowed to obscure the fact that Hezbollah and its backers have instigated the current fighting and should be held responsible for the consequences.

But nothing beats our President's unguarded no-nonsense remarks - with the mike accidentally left on whilst in St.Petersburg @ the G8 summit. You tell'em, ahem, and the rest of the world (h/t Michael van der Galien) Video here (sorry but C&L have the better video)

"What they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over..." [speaking to Blair]

"Well, I don't like the sequence of it," Bush said. Referring to Annan, the president added, "His attitude is basically ceasefire and everything else happens." [...]

[Returning] to the subject of Annan. "I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with Assad, make something happen," the president said, referring to Syrian President Bashir Assad. "We're not blaming Israel and we're not blaming the Lebanese government."

Bush also told Blair of his plans to dispatch Rice to the Middle East to address the crisis. "She's going," Bush said. "I think Condi's going to go pretty soon."

The tone may be different, but the bottom line remains: Thug-In-Chief Ahmadinejad is pulling the strings and unless the world acknowledges this fact and deal with him accordingly, he will soon up the ante, this time wielding the nuclear bomb.

One aim of "those who perpetuate violence," said Bush, would be to disrupt the international consensus against Iran's nuclear-enrichment program. Hizbullah launched its attack on Israel the same day that foreign ministers from the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council and Germany agreed to push ahead with demands that Iran suspend its nuclear efforts. The second part of the Iranian strategy, Bush suggested, would be to "create conditions such that moderate governments tend to step back in fear, and the vacuum would then be filled by the proponents of an aggressive ideology."

Well, Beirut is finally forced to face up to its own utter impotence, both militarily and politically

While there is debate over the military's wherewithal, one thing seems clear: the chances of Beirut standing up to its thuggish stepbrothers are slim, at best. What's more, experts say, Lebanon's army - much as its government - may represent disparate and contradictory loyalties.

Go, Condi, go and do your bidding.... The President is relying on you: "See, if she goes out, she's got to succeed, as it were, whereas I can just go out and talk." One thing is for certain, the President isn't wearing pink shades and knows that he can rely on Condi's comprehensive grasp of the overall situation:

What is really happening here is that extremists have revealed their hand. They are demonstrating that they cannot tolerate the forward march of democratic moderate forces in the Middle East.

They are trying to destabilize the young government of Lebanon by, in the case of Hezbollah, using Lebanon's territory to attack Israel without the knowledge of the Lebanese government.

In the case of radical elements of Hamas, as President Abbas was making some progress toward getting Palestinian leaders to move toward quartet conditions and to engage Prime Minister Olmert, radical elements have acted out. And of course, they're doing this in conjunction with sponsors in Damascus and in Tehran.

So what we really have here is extremist forces making very clear what the situation is, and we therefore have to work hard to stabilize and to promote a set of platforms on which moderate forces can stand.

To end on an optimistic note, this conflict has sparked an unprecedented thirst for answers; why Hezbollah choose to attack Israel at this moment in time; what Iran's and Syria's involvement is and what their motives are. I am truly encouraged by what seems to me a much broader effort to explain the genocidal intentions of the Jihadist thugs which lies at the heart of Israel's struggle for peace and normalcy.

A potent ideology, that's really a virus.

That's a much more cunning and effective strategy than sending a fellow in a suit to concoct a plan in his name. We need to learn from the Iranians. We need to wage war on the ideology, because until we do, the reality is that the Middle East's fetid "stability," its demography, its remorseless nuclearization and proxy militarization all favor Israel's and our enemies.

UPDATE: The gorgeous Pamela and my beloved NYC stand with Israel, [don't miss the photos and videos, and the call in to Rush audio] ignore the sour faced blonde frump on the podium, wearing the beige Mao Zedong suit and sporting the vinegar grin. She is upset because she is missing the pro-Hezbollah rally round the corner...

UPDATE II: The Israeli Ambassador to the US Daniel Ayalon speaks with Roger L. Simon about the ongoing war in Lebanon..

Comments

[jess1dering]

Saul,
I have enjoyed the site you referred me to above, for some time now. It's so full of clarity of thought and sanity. Rare comodities these days:)................and I've got the feeling that "we ain't seen nothing yet".
I'm off to read Daniel Pipes.
Thanks, Saul

[Saul Davis]

Jess: For another nice analysis on this topic, see Daniel Pipes' most recent article:

http://jewishworldreview.com/0706/pipes071906.php3;

As to Cole -- I liked your little ditty in commenting on the Cole article by Alexandra; nice touch; I would definitely not describe him as insightful -- how about incitefull? To deliberately skirt facts, he has to possess some honesty to recognize facts; since the excerpts of his writings that I have read demonstrate either complete dishonesty or residence in the twilight zone [most likely, the latter -- too much drinking from the Arabist fountain], I would not compliment him with the appellation of deliberately skirting facts.

[jess1dering]

Saul ,
Big grin over your correction.:)
I did read that and enjoyed it.I have bookmarked both sites. Great resources.:)
What do you make of Juan Cole ? Is he an insightful and highly intelligent ( wait, I can't type while laughing so hard. I just crack myself up !!!!) as I was saying, is he smart ,and an expert on the ME ,and deliberately skirting the facts OR is he a self-adulating ,semi-idiot who probably couldn't think his way out of a paper bag ?
His entire demeanor speaks of anything but strength, anything but character or conviction. Call me a meanie but i'd bet my bottom dollar that old Juan Cole'd be a quiet old soul if he were in disagreement with the terrorist murderers. OOOps...I mean, "terrorist murderers'
................................................
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Oh yes, for a mind bending visit into the world of Juan and his compatriots visit Juan Cole.com

[Saul Davis]

Oops: should be "terrorist murders"; really must proof before posting.

[Saul Davis]

Jess: The blog heading is "Treppenwitz, the wisdom of the stairs[?], . . . "; the title of the article is: "A Difficult Lesson"; very apropos; I was directed to that article by Abbagav's blogspot; he's an American expat in Israel, who writes quite well; first time reading of David Bogner's blog (Treppenwitz), but I have bookmarked that blog and intend to revisit. I have not read/heard a better practical analysis in defense of Israel's war against the terrorist murderer's than Bogner's.

[Ghost Dansing]

What points are those Kenneth? Sounds like a puppy wanting to tear up the newspaper.

[jess1dering]

Saul Davis,
I enjoyed lots of good reading and have a few new bookmarks thanks to you. I'm not sure I read the piece you refer to ,though. Does it have a title ? And again, I thank you.

[Kenny Pierce]

Ghost,

I genuinely would be interested in that list of bullet points I mentioned, and not so that I could tear them apart. Just sayin'.

[Saul Davis]

Very briefly, see an excellant analysis at:
http://bogieworks.blogs.com/treppenwitz/2006/07/thanks_i_needed.html
through Abbagav.blogspot.com; read the whole article for a very realistic position regarding what Israel should do, and why the rest of the world should stay out of this one (wishful thinking).

[jess1dering]

.............................................
"What happened to us on September 11th showed the American people that we have to have a different kind of Middle East, and we're determined to have a different kind of Middle East."
Condoleeza Rice
..................................................
................................
Alexandra,
As usual, thanks for all of your thoughtful commentary and for the links. The above quote is taken from a link you provided. In so few words, it says it all for me.
I still haven't heard one suggested alternative solution to our current course of action from the nay-sayers.
There are , of course, no guarantees that our efforts will be met with success, but oh, I hope and pray that they are.

[Ghost Dansing]

"...highly biased and what is more completely inaccurate..." Interpretation: stuff nbn doesn't agree with or an unpleasant fact that doesn't fit Republican spin.

He want's quotes or references so he can dismiss it out of hand because it comes from the New York Times, or God forbid, an encyclopedia instead of some extremist propaganda source.

"..oh...that comes from the biased UN...oh...that came from the Encyclopedia Brittanica..."

The trully original thought is so rare that. Perhaps that is what should trully be in quotes.

The habits of Liberalism acknowledges multiple perspectives in human affairs, as well as historical and other contexts. The Liberal press and media has the nasty habit of being Liberal...and is therefore often "off message" and not rendering the partisan politicians themes accurately.

That one of the reasons it is so hated within the context of modern Republicanism.

If one reads the historical context for Syria and Lebanon...even part of it...there is much that can be seen. For example, the problems between the Arabs and Israelis have a history that predates the modern surge in Islamic Extremism, and include long struggles with European colonial imperialism...not to mention their own internal points of friction.

As far as the comments that are "uniquely" mine...Dubya is somewhat cartoon-like in his intellectual engagement with the situation, and one might as well proceed with a comic-book like approach including the really great looking Space Marine General depicted in Alexandra's art posting. He is awesome. I'd love to see him in action against the Orks!

[jess1dering]

Any thoughts on this little quote from another blog ?
*The problem is this: While Syria does not want to get hit and will not make overt moves, so long as the Syrians cannot guarantee supplies will not reach Hezbollah or that Hezbollah won't be given sanctuary in Syria, Israel cannot complete its mission of shattering Hezbollah and withdrawing. They could be drawn into an Iraq-like situation that they absolutely don't want. Israel is torn. On the one hand, it wants to crush Hezbollah, and that requires total isolation. On the other hand, it does not want the Syrian regime to fall. What comes after would be much worse from Israel's point of view.

[jess1dering]

In the 1920's , as the victors were deciding to whom the spoils would go, the Arabs gave us a little preview of their attitude toward "negotiation". The following is a quote from MID-EastWeb , ".... The British hoped to establish self-governing institutions in Palestine, as required by the mandate. The Jews were alarmed by the prospect of such institutions, which would have an Arab majority. However, the Arabs would not accept proposals for such institutions if they included any Jews at all, and so no institutions were created. The Arabs wanted as little as possible to do with the Jews and the mandate, and would not participate in municipal councils, nor even in the Arab Agency that the British wanted to set up. Ormsby-Gore, undersecretary of state for the colonies concluded, "Palestine is largely inhabited by unreasonable people.".....". Hmmmm, the more things change , the more they stay the same.

[gringoman]

Israel's Olmert, so far, is surprising and even impressing gringoVision. Are we seeing signs of "Roman with a kosher sensibility"? (vide previous g-comment?) What? Can it be?

Keyboard Rangers, monitor your battle stations!

[Jeremayakovka]

Crusader,
You speak of secret Iranian and Arab respest for Israel. I agree. Though I believe it's from the Jews' state power and bankable prosperity, and remians ignorant and disdainful (at best) of Judaism. Please provides examples to the contrary. (This is based largely on my friendship (rather, good-acquaintanceship) with a Jordanian family here in the US: grudging respect for Israelis, real displeasure at Palestinians.)

Alexandra,
an unprecedented thirst for answers - Love it when poetic phrases appear in news commentary, during the best of times and worst of times.

[North by Northwest]

Ghost,

Do us all a favor and finally put in blockquotes, or put inverted commas or italics or something when you copy paste like this. Right now we all have to divine what your personal comment might be.

I kinda politely tried to give you a hint the other day, by giving you a link to your entire comment (and so did Kenny before me regarding another comment) which you copy pasted from the highly biased and what is more completely inaccurate United Nations account of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

We all quote all the time, but it's confusing if no one can distinguish between your words and a quote from elsewhere, never mind that a link would also come in handy.

No offense intended, just would like to be able to read your comment properly. Cheers.

[Liquid]

It's important that Israel really shows strength now, so that it's neighbors understand it won't be bullied -- even by proxy!

[Ghost Dansing]

Wow, Dubya was talkin' with his mouth full into the microphone:

"What they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it's over," Bush says with his mouth full as he buttered a piece of bread.

"Who, Syria?" asked Blair, standing next to the seated Bush.

"Right," Bush said. Within an hour, the remarks were broadcast on television stations, radio stations and websites around the world.

Meanwhile:

The State Department and White House warned Israel against any attack that could undermine the government of Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Siniora. The officials said the fall of the Siniora government could reverse U.S. efforts to turn Lebanon into an independent country.

"We just continue to ask that the Israelis exercise restraint, be concerned about civilian casualties, be concerned of course about civilian infrastructure," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said.

Nonsense I say! What would the Space Marine in the nice picture do? We all know...he would encourage Israel to continue to strike at the soft underbelly of Lebanon until she arrives at the Syrian border...then, with Israel's trusty ally America striking a flanking blow from the sea, thrust...thrust toward the heart of Damascus.

No marginal capitulation would be accepted...only total surrender. But wait! Are not the French and British to blame for the current state of affairs in Syria and Lebanon?

At the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919, Woodrow Wilson asked that the Arab claims to independence be given consideration, and Faysal was invited to present the Arab cause. His pleas were unavailing, as was a report recommending Syrian independence under Faysal or a United States mandate over the country. Disappointed by his failure at Versailles, Faysal returned to Damascus and declared again that Syria was nevertheless free and independent.

France and Britain refused to recognize Syria's independence, and the Supreme Allied Council, meeting in San Remo, Italy, in April 1920, partitioned the Arab world into mandates as prearranged by the earlier Sykes-Picot Agreement.

Syria became a French mandate, and French soldiers began marching from Beirut to Damascus. Arab resistance was crushed, and on July 25, 1920, the French took Damascus. Faysal fled to Europe and did not return to the Middle East until the British made him king of Iraq in 1921. Faysal's brother Abdullah was recognized by the British as the amir of the region that became known as Transjordan.

The boundaries of these states were thus drawn unilaterally by the European allies after World War I. Syria had experienced its brief moment of independence (1919-20), the loss of which Syrians blamed on France and Britain.

These events left a lasting bitterness against the West and a deep-seated determination to reunite Arabs into one state. This was the primary basis for modern Arab nationalism and the central ideological concept of future pan-Arab parties, such as the Baath (Arab Socialist Resurrection) Party and the Arab National Movement. Aspects of the ideology also were evolved in the 1950s and 1960s by Gamal Abdul Nasser of Egypt.

French-British rivalry in the Middle East continued after the two countries had divided the area into spheres of influence at San Remo. In their mandate, the French sought to increase their strength by supporting and separating religious minorities and thereby weakening the Arab nationalist movement.

France originally planned to establish three sectarian states: an Alawi state in the north, a Sunni Muslim state at the center, and a Druze state in the south. The three were eventually to be incorporated into a federal Syria.

France did create a Christian state in the area of Mount Lebanon. The Sunni Muslim state never materialized. Instead, in 1926 the French, working with Maronite leaders, expanded the original boundaries of the Christian state to create Lebanon.

To the east the valley of the Biqa, predominantly populated by Muslims, was added; to the west the Christian state was expanded to the coast and incorporated the cities of Tripoli, Beirut, Sidon, and Tyre.

The Syrians were an embittered, disillusioned people whose leaders kept them in ferment. Shaykh Salih ibn Ali led the Alawis in intermittent revolt, Shaykh Ismail Harir rebelled in the Hawran, and in the Jabal Druze, Sultan Pasha al Atrash, kinsman of the paramount chief of the Druzes, led continual resistance, most notably in 1925, as did Mulhim Qasim in the mountains around Baalbek. The revolts, however, were not necessarily expressions of desire for unified Syrian independence. They were uprisings by individual groups--Alawis, Druzes, and beduins--against foreign interference, comparable to those earlier fomented against the Ottomans.

Wow...almost sounds like the Balkans. But hey!

The capitulation of France in June 1940 brought Vichy-appointed General Henri Dentz as high commissioner and a new cabinet headed by Khalid al Azm, a wealthy landlord from an old Damascus family who was to play a leading role in Syrian politics 22 years later.

Despite continued German military successes elsewhere, British and Free French forces supported by troops of the Transjordan Arab Legion defeated the Vichy forces in both Syria and Lebanon. Control then passed to Free French authorities.

In January 1945, the Syrian government announced the formation of a national army and in February declared war on the Axis powers. In March the nation became a charter member of the United Nations (UN), an indication of its sovereign status, and, in April, affirmed its allegiance to the idea of Arab unity by signing the pact of the League of Arab States (Arab League).

The way in which the French left Syria, however, increased the already bitter feelings the Syrians had toward France. France was adamant in its demand that its cultural, economic, and strategic interests be protected by treaty before agreeing to withdraw the Troupes Speciales du Levant. In May 1945, demonstrations occurred in Damascus and Aleppo and, for the third time in 20 years, the French bombed and machine-gunned the ancient capital.

Serious fighting broke out in Homs and Hamah as well. Only after Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill threatened to send troops to Damascus did General de Gaulle order a cease-fire. A UN resolution in February 1946 called on France to evacuate. The French acceded and, by April 15, 1946, all French troops were off Syrian soil. On April 17 Syria celebrated Evacuation Day; the date is a national holiday.

With the departure of the French, however, unity among the leaders disappeared. Aleppines contested with Damascenes for dominance in commercial and political life; the Druzes pledged allegiance to Druzes, the Kurds to Kurds, and tribal peoples to tribal institutions.

Alawis, the poorest yet largest of the minorities, tried to rebel from Sunni Muslim control. Rural leaders contended with urban leaders; the progressive, increasingly secularized, younger generation vied with the older, religious-minded leaders. Politicians differed over the kind of government Syria should have--monarchy or republic, parliamentary or presidential democracy.

There were coups and counter coups, and of course support for Greater Syria, opposition to Jewish settlement in Palestine, and the 1917 Balfour Declaration in which Britain promised Jews a "national home" in Palestine (as part of the World War I promises to the Arabs and Jews), contributed to the growth of pan-Arabism as well as to the opposition to recognizing Israel as a legitimate Middle Eastern nation.

And then there was the Cedar Revolution and Syria left Lebanon, and now...well

So by all means we can agree with Dubya on this: Get the Syrians to get the hizbollah to stop the sh*t, and all will be well. Maybe the we could ask the French to help.

[Liquid]

Very true Alexandra, and if one thinks about the internal conflicts within Islam where many muslims disagree on the quran and their Islamic prophecy, inside all that confusion it's got to make most of them nervous because those apocalyptic muslims that acquire a nuke might consider even the muslims next door a Kafir; which they might feel the Mahdi wants taken out!

[Alexandra]

UPDATE: The gorgeous Pamela and my beloved NYC stand with Israel, [don't miss the photos and videos, and the call in to Rush audio] ignore the sour faced blonde frump on the podium, wearing the beige Mao Zedong suit and sporting the vinegar grin. She is upset because she is missing the pro-Hezbollah rally round the corner...

[Kenny Pierce]

Alexandra,

That's exactly what I was explaining to my Nepalese friend Deepak this morning -- every Arab government in the world other than Iran-puppet Syria and the pseudo-government of Gaza has figured out that Israel will never in a thousand years attack them and take over their countries -- but Iran would do that in a New York second given half a chance. The Arab world may hate the Jews with a blindless and scripture-inspired and insanely bloodthirsty passion, but the difference between the actual Jewish threat and the actual Persian threat is too unmistakable even for their hate-engorged myopia.

(Not all Americans can tell the difference between Iranians and Arabs, of course, as all those crazy Muslims look alike to the typical WASP. But the Arabs and Iranians sure know the difference.)

[Alexandra]

Liquid, great video....

[Alexandra]

The point at the moment seems to be that the Arab nations are quite happy to have Israel as the buffer between them and the nutty Mullahs in Tehran. They are not interested in gaining the territory presently known as Lebanon or Syria for that matter. They have traditionally always simply wanted to be left to exist in some sort of a peaceful co-existence of their own. Iran's ambitions may fire the masses up in certain parts but will not take the same stronghold amongst the fat cats in Saudi, or UAE such as Aman, Abu-Dhabi and Dubai, who jointly call the shots. They are in no way interested in backing Tehran in its crazy Caliphate ideas involving the Hezbollah unhinged brigade, and have a continuation of their more international life in mind, pre and post Ramadan, in Monaco, Paris and London. They have enough burkhas at home, when school is out they want to play, and that does not involve a Tehran controlled Islamist mother-ship.

It kind of puts the Arabs on the wrong side of Tehran on this one, and dare I say it, on the side of protecting their traditional 'buffer' Israel.

[Liquid]

I agree that the world should definately give up trying to stop Israel from defending itself, because in all honesty, if terrorist were kidnapping our soldiers or firing rockets into our cities--we wouldn't hesitate to kick some behind! Today I was reminded of THIS We didn't sit on our hands when we were attacked did we?

[rich]

Iran and Syria will fight to the last Palestinian, yes, even to the last member of Hezbollah. Their courage is there for all to see.

Israel must make sure that Hamas and Hezbollah (and thus Iran and Syria) cannot claim victory out of this, as they have in their other defeats.

That means hunkering down and plinking Hezbollah and Hamas targets for another month at least.

Asymmetrical warfare can be fought both ways.

The only way for Hezbollah and Hamas to win is if the outside world stops Israel from defending itself.

The pawns must be taken off the table.

[Kenny Pierce]

Michael,

The bit of the speech that leaped out at me was this one:

I highly value and appreciate the way the Opposition has been conducting itself in the Knesset these days. The human competition and personal rivalries are dissolved and instead our feeling of mutual responsibility arises, our sense of partnership, and primarily, our eternal love for our people and our land.

You know, coincidentally enough, that's just what I was about to say about Murtha and Pelosi and Dean and Kerry.

[Michael van der Galien]

Wonderful post Alexandra!

In the meantime, Olmert delivered a speech to the Knesses. I like the highlights: very passionate, determined and powerful:

"When missiles are launched at our residents and our towns, our answer will be war waged at full strength, with all determination, courage and sacrifice," he said.

"We are not looking for war or direct conflict, but if necessary we will not be frightened by it," added the prime minister.

Iran's influence in all of this, is extremely obvious. It cannot be ignored.
Just today the Jerusalem Post reports that the IDF took out a Zelzal 2 missile.

Hezbollah was carrying it in a truck to the Lebanese border to fire it at Israel. I dare not think about what might have happened if they were able to launch it successfully at Tel Aviv.

The thing? The Zelzal missile is made by Iran.

Iran must be stopped.

[RunningRoach]

Alexandra,

There is no question in my mind that the time is right to "take out" the mad Mullas in Iran and the boy King in Syria.

Wouldn't take very much.

Regards, JCC

[Michael van der Galien]

Huan,

exactemundo.

[Huan]

souldrinkers

btw, those who talk about contain islamism are fools. unlike communism which promises a better life that cannot be demonstrated, islamism promises a better afterlife which cannot be disproven in this life.

[Crusader.NoRegrets.]

The vast majority of Iranians, and indeed Arabs, have a secret respect and admiration for Israel, that they dare not express. The "mobs" in the streets of Damascus were pitiful in number, when you consider that they are often paid to attend. (In contrast, Hitler never had to pay a German to attend a Nuernberg rally)

But these same people who admire Israel are also quite politically savvy, and know that because of their leaders' choices, they will suffer the consequences of war, an attitude any mature, legally responsible adult has. Hence the worst thing Israel can do now is appear weak, as only through the overthrow of the existing order in the ME can long-lasting prosperity be achieved.

What we are witnessing is a race against time. The Islamic holocaust mill turns, albeit slowly, hoping to outlast the forces of democracy, while the opposition also builds. The prize is the corpse of the ME. One thing is certain - the days of the Mullahs and the Baaths are numbered, and they know it. The can only keep a lid on the polar opposites of democratic and theocratic opposition for so long.

Within your lifetime, the moslem ME will rip itself to shreds. It is the hope of all who yearn to just live, and prosper as Israel has done, that the theocrats go down with the ship. Will the Mullahs across the ME ever stand trial for their crimes against humanity? Aye, there's the rub.

I suspect that de-Islamicisation may be too much to ask for, but an Internationally-imposed Islamic Reformation (including a rewriting of much in the Koran) will go a long way to ending the disease of genocidal Islamism.

If these things do not come to pass, then Islam as a political force will leave India, China, Russia, Israel and many other non-Islamic countries with no choice but massive killing and destruction, on a WWII scale, the Geneva Conventions be damned. Indeed you will see massive air raids that wipe out entire cities, with the middle finger extended firmly in the UN's direction.

The Islamic politicos need to know - they are living on borrowed time. Their future is entirely theirs to screw up.

[igout]

I can imagine no circumstances under which both Israel and Iran can continue to exist. Hopefully, the Israeli and US governments are sharing my lack of imagination right now. Sic 'em, jews!